Who were the Primative Baptists- and what did they really believe?

There continues to be a tremendous amount of discrediting misinformation being spread about the mission work of several Primitive Baptists churches. It typically focuses on the work in the Philippines and often references several well known - within Primitive Baptists churches - ministers who support the work. It rarely mentions work in other countries. These unfounded unjustified untruthful attacks by fellow Primitive Baptists are a shameful disgrace to us all. It is very sad that so many of the Primitive Baptist churches in Texas, and many of their members, have fallen in line with these attacks on these mission efforts. It is the result of festering raw jealousy between ministers, edified by ignorance and misunderstanding about the true stand of the Primitive Baptists churches regarding mission work, failures to seek out the truth and give credence to valid explanations, and a blind acceptance and heated propagation of these lies by their congregations. They cite the evils of "mission boards" of long ago and falsely associate the mission work of good brothers and sisters in Christ with those problems. Few, if any of them, have any kind of mission work of their own preferring instead to rest comfortably behind their critical stand thus saving both themselves and their churches for the effort of participating in or supporting the preaching of God's word abroad to His chosen children who hunger for it.

 

Here we go again.

Why not just say what you mean and come right out and call me a liar?

 

btw, Dragoon, you also just inferred that Bro. pinoy is a liar, yet you have never met him, nor do you have any idea who he is.

I doubt you even read his posts regarding his first hand knowledge of the mission board.

And, btw, since you haven't been to our church in 2 years, how do you even know that we are not supporting any outside work regarding the preaching of God's word? (I say this assuming that you were referencing our church in these allegations.)

 

I wrote exactly what I meant concerning the subject!

 

When somebody sets up a website for the purpose of receiving 'donations' to help any mission work anywhere, that move has been premeditated. When all aid sent to any local preacher in the Philippines is instructed to be sent to one person, and that person dspenses the aid, fund, or money, then that person has become Missions Director, or Financial Administrator, or a one-man mission board.

Both are UNSCRIPTURAL.

When an American minister travels to the US with 'his' (?) Filipino preachers, the purpose is always to solicit support, PB or not. But when that American minister tells the group it is okay to solicit even from non PB's and whispers "st don't let the PB's know" that is absolutely suspect and smacks of insincerity.

At any rate, the Bible says 'abstain from all appearances of evil'. Notice, it tells us that the mere 'appearance' of evil, the mere similitude of evil, is enough for a child of God to shy away from it.

There is another American saying parallel to that,
and it is 'where there is smoke, there is fire', and in the case of the Philippine PB works, there is just too much smoke there can only be fire.

Lastly, when heresies, unscripturalism, and the likes are introduced into the Primitive Baptists,
bear in mind that it is those who introduce these that started the division, not those who want to remain in the old paths.

 

I appreciate your comments but don't fully agree.

So what? Are you saying that planning to ask for donations makes asking for them "evil"?

Specifically, how does the Bible define the manner in which funding for mission work is to be handled? Does it not find favor with God that the donations of brothers and sisters in Christ be carefully managed to avoid any misuse? Has any misappropriation been found? Can not any Church that wishes to donate ask for an accounting of how their gifts have been used?

What is the "evil" in bringing ministers from the Philippines here to preach so that those that would support the work can witness for themselves the truth in their messages? What is the "evil" in asking brothers and sisters in Christ for help in specific mission work?

That's a good scripture although there's some debate about it's actual meaning. That's also a good saying and often true. However, there is no overall "appearance of evil" involved in this work or the other mission works in Asia and Africa. There is nothing about it to abstain from! There is no great column of smoke hovering over the work. There is, however, a lot of "smoke" coming from those here who object to the work. The evil is in the attacks against the many brothers who've gone to these lands in answer to God's call and to the many brothers and sisters who've supported them from the proceeds of their own hard work.

The work is about spreading the word of God among the people and helping them establish churches of like kind to those which support them. There are humans involved so certainly there are mistakes. The Bible makes it clear that even when do good we often do it for the wrong reasons.

I certainly agree! That's true of any Church including the Primitive Baptists. The "old paths" included mission work so we should stay in those paths. The problem is those that want to find fault in the mission work of others and, worse yet, attempt to misuse the scriptures to discredit it.

I've visited with several ministers who've made trips to Asia and Africa. I've read their extensive daily journals. I've questioned them about their trips and their works.

I've listened to the preaching of some of the ministers from those lands.

I've been to similar countries. I've met some of the brothers and sisters in need of God's word - just like me and you - and seen the unique difficulty they face within their own cultures. I understand the great difficulty involved in raising the funds necessary just to make a trip to these lands much less engage in a life time of mission work therein. I understand the great difficulty involved in keeping the doctrine pure among cultures obsessed with pagan worship. I understand the immense problem of dealing with corruption in public and private financial affairs in some countries.

Then I compare it to our own and see that we are no better. We need mission work in our own land as well! We need to get back to the "old paths" of going out to spread the word.

I have complete admiration and respect for the ministers and others involved in the mission work of the Primitive Baptists churches. I pray God will continue to lead them and keep them pure in their work. I accept the fact that errors will be made and problems will be found just as they are in our own churches here at home.

 

So then Patrick, you find no fault in having a mission board to disperse the funds in the Philippines?

You find no fault in one man who proclaims that his mission is to oversee all of the churches in an entire country?

You find no fault in a corporation sending out solicitation of funds letters to anybody and everybody in order to sustain churches, when the churches, after this many years, ought to be self-sustaining?

You find no fault with mini-seminaries being set up so preachers can gather together and learn how to preach?

You find no fault in men leaving their pastorates vacant while going to a large church to be one of the many full-time assistant pastors?

You find no fault with a man parading "his ministers" around the country, telling them when and when not to preach, and controlling the funds that their separate churches receive?

If you find no fault with these, then, sir, you are no Primitive Baptist. I've had my doubts about that for quite sometime anyway.

You try to tell me what the history of our people is, but you have only been part of the church for a few years.

You try to tell me that our ministers who preach to small congregations for years and years, with no full-time salary, depending solely upon the Lord to lead them in their ministry, who will stand up against liberalism in the church, even though it is not popular with a lot of the "big time preachers", are jealous of those who would introduce garbage into the Primitive Baptist church?

That's like being jealous of the pig rolling in filth. It just ain't true.

You need to stop looking through your rose colored glasses, and look past the fact that your family is so intwined in the liberal movement, and look at what their horrible theology and practice is doing to the Old Baptist church here and abroad.

Why do you think there are already churches splitting in the Philippines because of the liberalism being brought in there? Why do you think so many churches and ministers here in the states, who once endorsed the movement, are now recognizing that it is not Primitive Baptist at all?

I pray that God would allow you to see what is happening right before your eyes, but that you refuse to see.

If not, I pray that you will find a liberal church that is involved in all this mess and would love to have you there to help them as well. Our church just will not have it, and that is why you were not happy there.

You make out like anyone who is against the work in the Philippines is ignorant, or jealous, or lying. I guess you are the most enlightened one among us. I suppose you are the only one that truly knows what is going on.

I want to tell you that I also have talked to people who have been there and been involved in all of the liberal practices. Several of them have preached at our church in times past. I have corresponded with several folks, and still do, via email who are directly involved, so I know exactly what they stand for and what they are doing.

You preach to brother pinoy about different cultures and the reason behind having the errors in other countries, yet you never take into account that he might just be from another country as well. He might know them first hand as well.

We've been over this same old thing a million times now. I grow weary of setting the record straight on what Primitive Baptists have held to all along after you come in and tell everyone what you think we believed before you came along. No matter how hard you try to make it, we will never be the Missionary Baptists, or any other group, so if want to have all of those strange and diverse doctrines and practices, then you need to go looking elsewhere. You will not find them here.

Good luck and God bless.

James

 

My user name is Dragoon68.

 

You are, obviously, the self appointed judge of what a Primitive Baptist is or is not. I've never sought your approval and don't intend to start now.

 

I'm not "trying" to tell you anything! I've given my comments on an open forum on some specific subjects. I don't care whether you agree or not.

 

Neither me nor my family are intwined in a liberal movenment. Regardless, that's not a matter to be discussed on this forum any more than the details of anyone else's family.

 

Hey, guys, we're moving quite a bit away from the topic.

 

I'm very much aware of Pinoybaptist's national orgin but that doesn't change a thing about my thoughts on the subject any more than it does his thoughts. I respect his views but I don't agree them. He's one voice. There are others also directly involved with other thoughts.

 

No, Bro. James Reed, it seems that you are the only one who "knows" what's truly going on and just can't stand it when someone posts an opposing view. I don't post to start an agruement with you. I post so others will know that your view is by far not the only one.

 

Why not do a single post, rather than writing numerous small posts?

 

I grow weary of some of your postings, Bro. James Reed, but I'll probably continue posting a different view if I think it might help someone else get a better understanding.

 

A better understanding of the liberal junk creeping into certain churches.

Our posts are making it about as clear as mud to anyone outside.

 

I won't dream of even trying to "make" anyone believe anything. You do know that's not possible, don't you?

There's nothing "strange" about supporting legitmate mission work as a Primitive Baptist.

 

Because you included so many different thoughts that a single response would have been too lengthy.

 

Garbage? You believe mission work is garbage don't you? What does salary vs. payment of expenses vs. no payment at all have to do with mission work? What does liberalism have to do with mission work?