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Who will be in the millennial kingdom?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Amy.G, Oct 12, 2008.

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  1. Amy.G

    Amy.G New Member

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    Assuming you believe in the literal 1000 year reign of Christ, will there be a mix of immortal and mortal? Will there be resurrected Christians? Is it for the Jews? Who will be there? What is it's purpose?
     
    #1 Amy.G, Oct 12, 2008
  2. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    I don't know :laugh:

    Seriously, I'll be back later...my sister-in-law is in delivery as I type this, so I wanted to respond to the thread I suggested you start :D
     
    #2 webdog, Oct 12, 2008
  3. Amy.G

    Amy.G New Member

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    Well, you're a big help aren't you? :laugh:

    Happy delivery to your SIL!
     
    #3 Amy.G, Oct 12, 2008
  4. Grasshopper

    Grasshopper Active Member
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    A timeline might also be helpful. When does the MK start? Many see Is. 66 as describing life in the MK, but Is. 65-66 describe life in the New Heavens and new Earth. So when does the MK begin, before or after the New heavens and New Earth?
     
    #4 Grasshopper, Oct 12, 2008
  5. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    Following the great tribulation (7 years) about 97-98% of the earth's population will be dead. - I had a class actually do the math of every judgment listed in Revelation and it was a fun yet sobering project.

    Even so, that leaves about 100 million living souls, mostly unregenerated, entering the kingdom. Jesus, ruling on a literal throne of His father David, will rule with a rod of iron.

    These will join the Bride (in the new jerusalem) and live in the peaceable kingdom on earth. No death. No bloodshed. They will have children and the number will grow exponentially in the 1000 years.

    At the end of the 1000 literal years, Satan will deceive those unregenerate millions (or billions by then) before the ultimate destruction of planet earth.
     
    #5 Dr. Bob, Oct 12, 2008
  6. Amy.G

    Amy.G New Member

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    How can the unregenerate enter the kingdom of God?

    Jhn 3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

    And if they're unregenerate, they're already deceived. What would Satan accomplish by deceiving an already deceived person?
     
    #6 Amy.G, Oct 12, 2008
  7. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    They are NOT in the "Kingdom of God" (being born again Jn 3). They are in the millennial kingdom - totally different and should not be confused.

    BTW, if unregenerate are not in the millennial kingdom, how do we come up with millions/billions in rebellion at the close of the kingdom? Why would Jesus the King have to rule with a rod of iron if only regenerate are there?
     
    #7 Dr. Bob, Oct 12, 2008
  8. Amy.G

    Amy.G New Member

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    If it's not the kingdom of God, then whose kingdom is it?

    He rules all with a rod of iron because He is a sovereign God shares His authority with no one.

    What is the purpose of this MK?
     
    #8 Amy.G, Oct 12, 2008
  9. Grasshopper

    Grasshopper Active Member
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    No death? Where is this found? They are granted immortality?

    You do not believe Is. 65-66 describe the MK?
     
    #9 Grasshopper, Oct 12, 2008
  10. Marcia

    Marcia Active Member

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    It's the mill. kingdom of Christ on earth. From Rev 20:

    4Then I saw (H)thrones, and (I)they sat on them, and (J)judgment was given to them And I saw (K)the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their (L)testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not (M)worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the (N)mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they (O)came to life and (P)reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
    5The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. (Q)This is the first resurrection.
    6(R)Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the (S)second death has no power, but they will be (T)priests of God and of Christ and will (U)reign with Him for a thousand years. 7When the thousand years are completed, Satan will be (V)released from his prison,
    8and will come out to (W)deceive the nations which are in the (X)four corners of the earth, (Y)Gog and Magog, to (Z)gather them together for the war; the number of them is like the (AA)sand of the seashore.


    Amy, note verse 4 where it says that saints who were dead "come to life" to reign with Christ. I am not sure how amillienists explain this. But it says that they were dead, come to life (resurrected bodies) and reign with Chirst. Then Satan is loosed.

    What is the purpose of the MK? I am not sure the bible tells us in so many words. It could be a foretaste of heaven for the saints (because the final battle has not been fought and Jesus has not as yet handed over the kingdom to the Father[see 1 Cor 15.24: "then comes the end, when He hands over the kingdom to the God and Father, when He has abolished all rule and all authority and power"] and then a final judgment on the unredeemed.

    I am out of my depth here but just because I don't have all the answers does not mean this position is wrong (I am saying that just generally speaking). I am still learning all this, too!
     
    #10 Marcia, Oct 12, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 12, 2008
  11. skypair

    skypair Active Member

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    Basically, Israel's NH-NE is the MK of Messiah on earth. The church's NH-NE is the "kingdom of God" on earth that follows the MK.

    This follows the rule of "dual application" of prophecy under which, because Israel rejected Christ, they will receive the prophecies and promises as they would have BUT the church will receive them also in another form. The first example of the church's receiving what Israel will also is Pentecost. Ours happened in ~30 AD -- theirs will come in the midst of the tribulation seige of Jerusalem (Joel 2:28-32, Zech 12:9-10).

    Timeline? Rapture -- tribulation (3 1/2 years) -- great tribulation (3 1/2 years) -- Christ's return -- MK (Israel's NH-NE) -- earth dissolved -- NH-NE.

    skypair
     
    #11 skypair, Oct 13, 2008
  12. skypair

    skypair Active Member

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    I think you answered your own question and didn't know it! :laugh:

    While Christ rules in the MK, there is sin, death, and rebellion. Those can NEVER exist in the kingdom of His Father, God. God's kingdom succeeds Christ's MK. It is perfect -- it is what we pray for in the Lord's Prayer.

    It allows OT believers to live the "Christ-life" of a Spirit-indwelt believer (which they never did before). It allows them to receive all their promises. It allows Christ to have His earthly kingdom which He will subsequently "deliver up" to His Father, 1Cor 15:24-28.

    skypair
     
    #12 skypair, Oct 13, 2008
  13. Amy.G

    Amy.G New Member

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    You have the 2 covenants co-existing which I can't understand because the Bible says that the Old Covenant has been fulfilled in Christ and has passed away. There is now "one new man" in the New Covenant. I'm not saying the church has replace Israel, but that the 2 became one.

    What I have seen happen repeatedly is that the pre-trib/pre-mil folks take certain parts of scripture and say it's literal, but then take other parts and say it's symbolism, while at the same time saying they take all scripture literally. :confused: It's quite confusing.
     
    #13 Amy.G, Oct 13, 2008
  14. Amy.G

    Amy.G New Member

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    Does this not sound familiar to you? This is the kingdom we live in right now. (sin, death, rebellion)
    Is Christ king now or not? I say He is my king, not will be.

    I don't understand the first part of this because OT believers didn't have the constant indwelling of the Spirit, but they were indwelt at times in order to do God's will. They also had God Himself speaking to them.

    As for the 2nd part, Christ is already king of His kingdom, which is still expanding. We (the church) are His earthly kingdom.
     
    #14 Amy.G, Oct 13, 2008
  15. Amy.G

    Amy.G New Member

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    There already was a seige of Jerusalem. Did you read the article about the 7 year rebellion of the Jews against Rome that I posted?

    It seems to me that God already judged Israel when He destroyed the temple and Jerusalem in 70 AD. You're saying He's going to do it again in the tribulation? Why twice?
     
    #15 Amy.G, Oct 13, 2008
  16. ray Marshall

    ray Marshall New Member

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    JESUS CHRIST put away sin once and once only. When he died on the cross, he paid for all that was his after his death and the sins of those before he came from Heaven, he paid for theirs on credit. He got all that he paid for. we owe nothing for our sins and could not pay the sin debt, but he did and he got all of those that he paid the sin debt for, BC & AD.
     
    #16 ray Marshall, Oct 13, 2008
  17. Grasshopper

    Grasshopper Active Member
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    Confusing isn't it Amy, all these dual/double fulfillment/3 kingdoms/one spiritual-one physical/two New H&E theories. Alot of square pegs in round holes theology.

    Notice how Dr. Bob and skypair can't agree on whether death exists in the MK:

    Hard to debate dispies when they all hold different positions.
     
    #17 Grasshopper, Oct 13, 2008
  18. Marcia

    Marcia Active Member

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    Amils do it even more. They also allegorize, imo.
     
    #18 Marcia, Oct 13, 2008
  19. Marcia

    Marcia Active Member

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    Amy, are you amil now? [​IMG] If so, then you must believe that what is described in Rev 20 below has happened, in which case, the "first resurrection" has happened:

    4Then I saw (H)thrones, and (I)they sat on them, and (J)judgment was given to them And I saw (K)the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their (L)testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not (M)worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the (N)mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they (O)came to life and (P)reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
    5The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. (    Q)This is the first resurrection.
    6(R)Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the (S)second death has no power, but they will be (T)priests of God and of Christ and will (U)reign with Him for a thousand years. 7When the thousand years are completed, Satan will be (V)released from his prison,
    8and will come out to (W)deceive the nations which are in the (X)four corners of the earth, (Y)Gog and Magog, to (Z)gather them together for the war; the number of them is like the (AA)sand of the seashore.
     
    #19 Marcia, Oct 13, 2008
  20. Marcia

    Marcia Active Member

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    Amy, I hope you are doing your own studies of this, which should take at least a year of carefully reading Daniel and Revelation and Thess, then reading all the millennium views before possibly deciding. It might take years. Or you might take a position only to change it later (as some here have testified).

    While it might be about 10 - 20% helpful, don't count on what people post on endtimes on the BB (including me) to give you the answer. :wavey:
     
    #20 Marcia, Oct 13, 2008
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