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Featured Whom Did the Israelites Worship in the Golden Calf Incident?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Scripture More Accurately, Jul 17, 2021.

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  1. Yahweh

    2 vote(s)
    15.4%
  2. One or more false gods

    9 vote(s)
    69.2%
  3. Yahweh and one or more false gods

    2 vote(s)
    15.4%
  1. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    It seems fine to me. According to my dictionary, a calf is a young bovine animal; male or female..
     
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  2. Scripture More Accurately

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    Three days ago, I posted the following online in a private discussion group:

    "Acts 7:39 To whom [Moses] our fathers would not obey, but thrust him from them, and in their hearts turned back again into Egypt, 40 Saying unto Aaron, Make us gods to go before us: for as for this Moses, which brought us out of the land of Egypt, we wot not what is become of him. 41 And they made a calf in those days, and offered sacrifice unto the idol, and rejoiced in the works of their own hands.

    Concerning what was supposed to be a feast to the Lord, the Spirit says that they were rejoicing not in the Lord, but in the works of their own hands.

    Because Scripture speaks some 20x explicitly of people rejoicing in the Lord (including 5 commands to do so) and none of the six GCI passages say anything about the Israelites rejoicing in the Lord, I believe that Acts 7:39-41 is definitive evidence that the Israelites were not worshiping Yahweh at all in the GCI [bold added to original]."

    I am working on compiling additional supporting evidence for this interpretation, but I think this evidence by itself is more than enough to support my position.
     
    #22 Scripture More Accurately, Jul 20, 2021
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2021
  3. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    20 But I say, that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils, and not to God: and I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils.

    21 Ye cannot drink the cup of the Lord, and the cup of devils: ye cannot be partakers of the Lord's table, and of the table of devils.
     
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  4. Scripture More Accurately

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    Exactly what I was wondering whether the person who posted that comment would say in response to my inquiry.

    I have written extensively elsewhere of how important these verses are in properly understanding the GCI!
     
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  5. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Anytime an idol is worshipped there is a demonic spirit behind the idol soliciting worship.
     
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  6. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    Maybe there are two questions here.

    Who did they think they were worshipping?

    Who were they actually worshipping?

    Clearly, Aaron made a “visual” representation of the invisible God, as AustinC has pointed out.

    If they worshipped the idol, they weren’t worshipping God, no matter what they intended.

    peace to you
     
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  7. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    The MAIN "god' they were worshipping was BAAL, which meant "lord" in several languages, & with different pronunciations per language. (bale, beel, ball, etc.)

    Most of the golden calves, likely including the Israeli one, were made with one U-shaped horn. This was because they were an image of the planet Venus while it was a comet, as it appeared with a U-shaped double tail, with an arc between the 2 tails. After wreaking havoc on the earth with 2 close approaches, it didn't come close any more, but still had a cigar-shaped orbit, becoming highly-visible every 49-52 years. God instituted the Year of Jubilee every 49 years to remind the Israelis He had spared them from another catastrophe brought on by Venus. After so long, the menace faded, but during Hezekiah's time, Venus & Mars became entangled, & approached earth, causing several catastrophes, including distorting the atmosphere in places & disturbing earth's rotation, allowing the sun to scorch parts of earth. Thus came the Greek legend of Phaeton, & the retreat of the sun at Hezekiah's request.

    None of this is set in stone, of course, byut until a better, provable explanation comes along, this one stands.

    But the MAIN "god" the Israelis worshipped with their calf was Baal. Such calves remained Baal's symbol for senturies in many lands.
     
  8. Scripture More Accurately

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    I do not see any evidence that they thought they were worshiping the true God. Instead, we have Scripture that indicates otherwise:

    Acts 7:39 To whom [Moses] our fathers would not obey, but thrust him from them, and in their hearts turned back again into Egypt, 40 Saying unto Aaron, Make us gods to go before us: for as for this Moses, which brought us out of the land of Egypt, we wot not what is become of him. 41 And they made a calf in those days, and offered sacrifice unto the idol, and rejoiced in the works of their own hands.

    Acts 7:39 says that in their hearts they had turned back again into Egypt. Unless one wants to hold that godly Israelites routinely worshiped the true God through an idol in Egypt (for which we have no evidence), this shows that their hearts were not on the Lord so they were not thinking that they were worshiping the Lord.

    Moreover, they were not rejoicing in the Lord or the Lord and one or more false gods; they were rejoicing in the works of their own hands, which shows that they were not thinking that they were worshiping the true God.
     
    #28 Scripture More Accurately, Jul 21, 2021
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2021
  9. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    What did Aaron say to them when he brought the calf to be worshipped?

    peace to you
     
  10. Scripture More Accurately

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    Yes, Aaron told them that tomorrow is a feast to the Lord. That is what it was supposed to have been, but there is no evidence that they actually did anything in that feast that was directed to the Lord.

    As Acts 7:39 shows, they did not offer sacrifices to the Lord--they offered sacrifices to the idol.

    What's more, God said the following to Moses about what they did on that occasion:


    Exodus 32:8 They have turned aside quickly out of the way which I commanded them: they have made them a molten calf, and have worshipped it, and have sacrificed thereunto, and said, These be thy gods, O Israel, which have brought thee up out of the land of Egypt.

    Notice that God did not say to Moses, "They have made them a molten calf, and have worshiped Me, and have sacrificed to Me . . ."
     
  11. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    Specifically concerning the golden calf, what did Aaron say to them?

    edit to add: I stand corrected, beyond declaring a feast to the Lord, he did not say the calf was the true God.

    peace to you
     
    #31 canadyjd, Jul 21, 2021
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2021
  12. Scripture More Accurately

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    Yes, what did Aaron say concerning the golden calf?
     
  13. Scripture More Accurately

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    Scripture provides even more evidence that they did not worship the true God at all in the GCI:

    Psalm 106:19-22

    19 They made a calf in Horeb, and worshipped the molten image.

    20 Thus they changed their glory into the similitude of an ox that eateth grass.

    21 They forgat God their saviour, which had done great things in Egypt;

    22 Wondrous works in the land of Ham, and terrible things by the Red sea.

    Ps. 106:21-22 explicitly says that they forgot the true God who was their Savior that did great things for them in Egypt and by the Red Sea. We know, therefore, that these false worshipers were not mindful of or thinking of the true God when they made the calf, proclaimed it as their god(s), worshiped it, sacrificed to it, and rejoiced in it.
     
  14. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    As I stated, I stand corrected. Beyond declaring a feast for the Lord, Aaron did not say the calf was God.

    peace to you
     
  15. Scripture More Accurately

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    I would really like to hear how the 2 people who voted for "Yahweh" support their view.
     
  16. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Exodus 32:5 would be the verse supporting YHWH as the object of worship.

    Exodus 32:5 When Aaron saw this, he built an altar before it. And Aaron made a proclamation and said, “Tomorrow shall be a feast to the Lord.”

    Benson Commentary

    Exodus 32:5. "Aaron built an altar — Being borne down with the stream; and proclaimed a feast — Namely, of dedication; yet he calls it a feast to Jehovah — By which it is still more evident that the people did not intend to terminate their adoration in the image, but designed to worship the true God in and by this calf, which they meant to consider as only a visible token of God’s presence with them, and a medium by which to convey their worship to him."
    Barnes Notes on the Bible
    "It is expressly said that they yielded to the idolatry of Egypt while they were in bondage Joshua 24:14; Ezekiel 20:8; Ezekiel 23:3, Ezekiel 23:8; and this is in keeping with the earliest Jewish tradition (Philo). In the next verse, Aaron appears to speak of the calf as if it was a representative of Yahweh - "Tomorrow is a feast to the Lord." The Israelites did not, it should be noted, worship a living Mnevis, or Apis, having a proper name, but only the golden type of the animal."
    Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary
    "5, 6. Aaron made proclamation, and said, To-morrow is a feast to the Lord—a remarkable circumstance, strongly confirmatory of the view that they had not renounced the worship of Jehovah, but in accordance with Egyptian notions, had formed an image with which they had been familiar, to be the visible symbol of the divine presence. But there seems to have been much of the revelry that marked the feasts of the heathen."

    Matthew Poole's Commentary

    "When Aaron saw, i.e. observed with what applause they received it, and with what fury and resolution they prosecuted their former desire, he was borne down with the stream, and, as it is probable, by the people’s instigation, built an altar to it.

    To the Lord, Heb. to Jehovah; which title being peculiar to the true God, and being here given by Aaron to the calf, with the approbation of the people, makes it more than probable that the people designed to worship the true God in this calf, which they made only as a visible token of God’s presence with them, and an image by which they might convey their worship to God."
     
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  17. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    My posts #4 and #8 are still there if you wish to engage with them.
     
  18. Scripture More Accurately

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    As I have already shown, regardless of what Aaron intended for the feast on the next day to have been (Exod. 32:5), God's own assessment (in 3 other places of Scripture: Exod. 32:8; Ps. 106:21; Acts 7:41) of what they actually did do on that next day shows that they did not worship Him.
     
  19. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    That's a given. When you attempt to create an image of YHWH, you are worshipping your own god. This is why "free will" theology is a form of idolatry like unto Aaron and the calf.
     
  20. Scripture More Accurately

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    If you acknowledge that as a given and voted "Yahweh" in my poll, you should change your vote because it simply is not true that they worshiped Yahweh in the GCI.
     
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