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Why Calvinists and Arminianists are both wrong

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Gup20, Apr 17, 2009.

  1. Gup20

    Gup20 Active Member

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    Posting from my iPhone, so no copy + pasting. But if you read Galatians 3 you will see the entire chapter is all about the faith of Abraham, for example verses 7&9 and verse 14. Verse 18 talks of God's grace given to Abraham. Verse 29 says "if you belong to Christ, then are you Abraham's seed and heirs of God's promises to Abraham."
     
  2. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry <b>Moderator</b>
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    No, Gal 3 is actually about the role of faith in salvation and sanctification. The promises to Abraham about a seed are appealed to as a part of that. Nowhere in Gal 3 (or anywhere else) is Jesus said to be the content of what Abraham believed.
     
  3. Heavenly Pilgrim

    Heavenly Pilgrim New Member

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    HP: Joh 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.

    I for one see your remark as simply in error Pastor.
     
  4. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry <b>Moderator</b>
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    At the risk of being overly pedantic about words, I don't see anything in that verse that says Jesus was the content of what Abraham's faith. In fact, I don't see anything about Abraham's belief at all. Can you show that to me?

    That's the point: It's not what Abraham saw. It's not what Paul says about the promises to Abraham. It is "What did Abraham believe?" On the basis of the Bible, it says "Abraham believed God." He believed that God would keep his promises to give him a seed. The Bible does not say that it is a belief that Jesus would die for Abraham's sins.

    Here's another case where some of you are reading your own theology into Scripture rather than letting Scripture speak for itself.
     
  5. Heavenly Pilgrim

    Heavenly Pilgrim New Member

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    HP:Not with your eyes and ears closed.
     
  6. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry <b>Moderator</b>
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    My eyes and ears are opened. Can you show me any word for "faith" or "belief" in that verse?
     
  7. Gup20

    Gup20 Active Member

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    I agree with you... Galatians 3 is all about the role of Salvation and sanctification, but the example the Apostle Paul uses for salvation (aka - being made righteous by faith) is that of Abraham.

    Gal 3:6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
    7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
    8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, [saying], In thee shall all nations be blessed.
    9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

    Gal 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

    Gal 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

    Gal 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

    Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
    29 And if ye [be] Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

    It says God preached the gospel to him before the gospel existed. Galatians 3:16 says that that "seed" is Jesus Christ. God told Abraham something about his "seed" - that seed being Jesus Christ - and Abraham believed God and this was counted as righteousness. It wasn't that Abraham believed God and just by believing anything God said, it counted as righteousness, but God told Abraham about Jesus specificly, and that is why the belief was counted as righteousness
    Gal 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

    Gen 15:5
    And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be.
    6 And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.
    Romans 4 confirms what Galatians 3 says:
    Rom 4:2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath [whereof] to glory; but not before God.
    3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
    4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
    5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.


    Rom 4:10 How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision.
    11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which [he had yet] being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:


    Rom 4:13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, [was] not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.

    Rom 4:16 Therefore [it is] of faith, that [it might be] by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

    Rom 4:22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.
    23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;
    24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;
    25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.


    This is not my theology, it is the Apostle Paul's theology. He says it was not written for Abraham's sake alone, but for us who will receive righteousness through faith in Jesus Christ.

    Jesus confirms it in John 8.
    Jhn 8:39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.
    40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.


    Jhn 8:51 Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.
    52 Then said the Jews unto him, Now we know that thou hast a devil. Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and thou sayest, If a man keep my saying, he shall never taste of death.
    53 Art thou greater than our father Abraham, which is dead? and the prophets are dead: whom makest thou thyself?

    Jhn 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw [it], and was glad.

    Jhn 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.


     
    #227 Gup20, May 7, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: May 7, 2009
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