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Why did Jesus make wine?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by LeBuick, Sep 20, 2007.

  1. convicted1

    convicted1 Guest

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    The only reason why I believe he made the water into wine was to set into motion the beginning of revealing who He really was. At that time, people only knew him as a Son of a carpenter. None of us can pour water into containers and when given to someone it's wine. This was His first miracle, wasn't it? By Him doing this very act, it put the wheels into motion, I believe.

    Willis
     
  2. LeBuick

    LeBuick New Member

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    Depends on how you read Jn 2:11 "This beginning of miracles did Jesus in Cana of Galilee"


    But go back and read the part about Mary. First her coming to Jesus about the wine running out then her comments to the servants. If this was his very first miracle, what motivated her comments? I suspecting this was his first miracle after beggining his ministry???

    3 And when they wanted wine, the mother of Jesus saith unto him, They have no wine.
    5 His mother saith unto the servants, Whatsoever he saith unto you, do it.

    This doesn't look like the first time she saw him in action...
     
  3. Amy.G

    Amy.G New Member

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    I was thinking the same thing last night. There are several years of Jesus' life that the Bible is silent on. I wonder what kinds of signs He might have done as a child or teen in His own home. I'll bet Mary had seen some things before the wedding request.
     
  4. rjprince

    rjprince Active Member

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    All speculation, but interesting speculation. I have thought that perhaps Jesus might have done some miracles in the home before, but this may also be inconsistent with the fact that Jesus did not perform miracles without it being the Father's will. Add to this the fact that if He had done miracles around the house, why didn't His half-siblings believe on Him on the basis of what theyhad already seen?

    We can ask Him later!
     
  5. Amy.G

    Amy.G New Member

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    Definitely speculation on my part. :)

    His siblings may not have believed on Him for the same reason Joseph's brothers hated him, jealousy.

    Or, Jesus said that even if a man were to see someone raised from the dead, he still wouldn't believe. (the rich man and Lazarus)

    People are hard hearted and hard headed. Especially family members! :tongue3:
     
  6. standingfirminChrist

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    This beginning of miracles did Jesus in Cana of Galilee, and manifested forth his glory; and his disciples believed on him. (John 2:11)

    This was the beginning of miracles, not the continuation of miracles. Jesus had not performed miracles prior to the one at the wedding feast.
     
  7. LeBuick

    LeBuick New Member

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    Could this be miracles after beginning his ministry? How do you explain Mary's faith?

    His birth was certianly a miracle? How about this story?

    Lk 2:46 And it came to pass, that after three days they found him in the temple, sitting in the midst of the doctors, both hearing them, and asking them questions.
    47 And all that heard him were astonished at his understanding and answers.
    48 And when they saw him, they were amazed: and his mother said unto him, Son, why hast thou thus dealt with us? behold, thy father and I have sought thee sorrowing.
    49 And he said unto them, How is it that ye sought me? wist ye not that I must be about my Father's business?
    50 And they understood not the saying which he spake unto them.

    EDIT... My point being if he did this at 12, was there an 18 year void????
     
    #67 LeBuick, Sep 25, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 25, 2007
  8. standingfirminChrist

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    Jesus' birth was indeed a miracle! But it was because the power of the Most High overshadowed Mary and she conceived.

    Mary knew Jesus was the Son of God. It is possible she had been told by the angel that Jesus would perform miracles... it is not recorded. It is possible Jesus Himself told her that during His walk on this earth He would perform miracles... again, not recorded.

    What is recorded is that this particular miracle was the Beginning of miracles. We must believe the Word of God as true. This was His first miracle.

    What prompted Mary to tell the servants to do 'whatsoever He commandeth thee, do it", we are not told.
     
  9. Alcott

    Alcott Well-Known Member
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    I didn't anticipate the problem this thread would bring-- once we got past that tired old distraction-- but it is here: If the Cana incident was indeed Jesus' first miracle, then it was not a miracle in John 1:48-50, in which Nathaniel was convinced Jesus was the son of God because Jesus "saw him under the fig tree." But if Nathaniel was too far away or too hidden to be seen, what would convince him of such an unparalleled (and, to Jews, blasphemous) affirmation? Even if he thought Jesus had extremely good eyesight, that should not have been enough for him to commit what was a capital offense. It seems that has to be a miracle.

    Maybe the only explanation is that Jesus did a number of miracles in Cana (2:11), and this was just the beginning.
     
  10. Allan

    Allan Active Member

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    Look up the term "son of God" it might help you understand exactly what Nathaniel was refering to Jesus as.

    It was not that Jesus was half man half god like the Greek myths, nor is it in the usage that Christians acribe it being equal with God because He is God Himself.

    However, does the scripture EVER state or equate Jesus knowledge as a miracle at any time??
    Not that I have read in the scriptures, maybe you know the verse where this is located, if so please share :)
     
  11. Allan

    Allan Active Member

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    Who says she was expecting a miracle? Scripture does not imply this. Being that Jesus was considered the head of her house (first born Son having no father) it was His resposiblitly to take care of His mother. His mother was worried about the reputation of the couple being married which indicates they were close relatives or close friends, but the truth is that doesn't matter either. She told the servants to do what He told them to do; this would included running to the local store on His behalf. To assume Mary knew Jesus was a miracle worker already is to assume more than the text implies. She dd not forwarn the servants He coud do something that might astound them, but to obey Him. This 'obey' carries the impression of her asking them to give their all to whatever He asks.

    Note: You comment about Christs birth, while indeed a miracle, it was not done by Him but God the Father via God the Holy Spirit.

    And Jesus being a youth in the Temple also is not scripturally seen as a miracle. And even if we were to agree it was, Jesus Himself did not perform this miriacle and that is the criteria here. Jesus is the one DOING the miracles.
     
    #71 Allan, Sep 26, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 26, 2007
  12. Alcott

    Alcott Well-Known Member
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    Unlike you, the NASB, KJV, CEV, and NIV all capitalize Son in this passage, as well as capitalize King of Israel. If that's not referring to Jesus' status as equal with God, why do they do it? (this is English, not German)

    Another point... as to Mary apparently knowing it should be time for her Son to use his divine power, wouldn't that because, as other gospels besides John say, he was 30 years old when he began his ministry? That was the age at which a man could be recognized as a rabbi. If Mary had never requested such a thing before, probably it was because she knew that would be 'jumping the gun.' But since he had turned 30, as she of course knew, it was allowable even for a worldly reason; well, half-worldly, as his new disciples came to believe on Him.
     
  13. Allan

    Allan Active Member

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    Oh brother, I simply did not capitalize the 'son' in error.
    Secondly did you by chance look up what the term means?? I thought not.

    Mary did not 'apparently know it SHOULD be time'. That is pure speculation and assumption which in no way can be derived from the text nor any of the other Gospels.

    She did not know anything of the sort. She 'pondered these things in her heart' was the best she could ever do in regard to knowing anything about His future OR ministry. Jesus did what He did NOT according to 'worldly' reasons but in accordance with the Fathers will and that alone and not His mothers whims or commands.
     
  14. Alcott

    Alcott Well-Known Member
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    Do you mean she may have been asking him to do miracles all his life? And whether you like it or not, his first response to Mary's request was "Woman, what does that have to do with us? My hour has not yet come." It seems she must have ignored that, and it seems he changed his mind-- or was the following hour 'his hour?' or the next?... next? Them Jews sure had a whale of a long wedding celebration, you know.
     
  15. Allan

    Allan Active Member

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    What? How did you get THAT from what I wrote?


    Actually His response was "what does this have to do with Me".


    His 'hour' (specifically the time when He chooses in accordance with His Fathers will) thus it alludes to the fact that Jesus WAS going to do something but not that it was to be specifically a miracle. AND she didn't ignore it, she told the servants to do whatever He told them so no time frame need be specified since it was to be done at His choosing.
     
  16. LeBuick

    LeBuick New Member

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    I see your points but you like us are drawing conclusions that are not specifically spelled out in this passage. This is what theological debate does. One implication is that it was the "Fathers Will" this party needed another few hundred gallons of wine.

    So let's look at the facts...

    The wine had run out.
    For some reason Mary made Jesus aware
    She likewise instructed the servants to do what Jesus said
    Jesus said to fill the pots to the brim
    When they drew from the pots, wine (the best) was there in

    It appears the word "miracle" fills in all the gaps in the above list of facts. I believe the Bible is without error. I also think there are times we cause the error by mis-understanding text/times etc...

    My suggestion was this, he had began calling disciples etc... so we know something was about to begin or his life was now changing.

    He is baptized and confirmed at the Jordan by the Father, he is tested in the wilderness yet didn't sin then he goes to this wedding and makes wine. I am suggesting the previous two incidents (baptism and wilderness testing) separated his previous 30 years from the next 3 years. This was the intent in calling disciples. Whatever he was for the last 30 years, he is no longer that but is now something new for the next 3 years (we can debate titles later). And this is the first miracle in the period of the next 3 years which is separate from His previous 30 years of life. Thoughts?
     
  17. standingfirminChrist

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    Actually, His ministry began much earlier than that. His ministry began at twelve years of age when He was in the temple reading Scripture.

    What? Know ye not that I must be about my Father's business?
     
  18. skypair

    skypair Active Member

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    Actually...

    Turning water into wine was a "sign miracle" of prophecy. Here at the beginning of His earthly ministry, He looked forward to His own wedding when He would turn the water of the Spirit into the wine of joy in the midst of His family and guests.

    One key point is that this is a "wedding feast" that follows the wedding itself. In like manner, Christ will marry His church/spouse in heaven during the tribulation and come back to present her at the beginning of His MK, Rev 19:9. In attendance will be His "family," the OT Jewish saints, the "guests" in Mt 22.

    skypair
     
  19. convicted1

    convicted1 Guest

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    John chapter 2

    : And the third day there was a marriage in Cana of Galilee; and the mother of Jesus was there:
    2: And both Jesus was called, and his disciples, to the marriage.
    3: And when they wanted wine, the mother of Jesus saith unto him, They have no wine.
    4: Jesus saith unto her, Woman, what have I to do with thee? mine hour is not yet come.
    5: His mother saith unto the servants, Whatsoever he saith unto you, do it.
    6: And there were set there six waterpots of stone, after the manner of the purifying of the Jews, containing two or three firkins apiece.
    7: Jesus saith unto them, Fill the waterpots with water. And they filled them up to the brim.
    8: And he saith unto them, Draw out now, and bear unto the governor of the feast. And they bare it.
    9: When the ruler of the feast had tasted the water that was made wine, and knew not whence it was: (but the servants which drew the water knew;) the governor of the feast called the bridegroom,
    10: And saith unto him, Every man at the beginning doth set forth good wine; and when men have well drunk, then that which is worse: but thou hast kept the good wine until now.
    11: This beginning of miracles did Jesus in Cana of Galilee, and manifested forth his glory; and his disciples believed on him.

    The reason why Mary told them "whatsoever He saith unto you, do it" is because she knew He was/is the Son of God. She had to, because she gave birth to Him. She knew He was conceived from "on High", of a heavenly seed, not earthly. This is the first "recorded" miracle by Him, and in verse 11 it says it was the beginning of miracles. We can speculate anything and everything, but we have "facts" that this WAS the beginning of miracles. Prior to this the people only knew Him as Jesus, son of Joseph. When He turned the water into wine, it showed that He was/is much more than that.
     
  20. LeBuick

    LeBuick New Member

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    How did I overlook that? Now you get the crown of good response.
     
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