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Why do infants die?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Dale-c, Aug 16, 2009.

  1. ray Marshall

    ray Marshall New Member

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    There is a statement at the bottom of the above scerano. Who can judge GOD? He is just in all he does, We are unjust.
     
  2. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    Why the need to insult, Dale? Just because a person may agree with a false doctrine on ONE topic does NOT make that person part of the false doctrine. I called you out on this in the other thread. Are you Roman Catholic, Dale?
     
  3. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    Still does not answer the question, and makes no difference how He died...He died. Throws the OP for a loop.

    I'll let Scripture answer your question..."it has been appointed for man once to die" (notice "once")
     
  4. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    oops! wrong thread
     
  5. Dale-c

    Dale-c Active Member

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    It is not meant as an insult web.
    Believing in the trinity is does not make one a catholic. Praying to mary, believing in the infalibility of the Pope, etc makes you a catholic.

    Believing that infants are sinless until they use their free will to sin (and are thus innocent before God until that point) makes you at least a semi pelagian if not a full pelagian.

    It is no more a insult to call you a semi pelagian (or pelagian depending on exactly what you believe) than for you to call me a calvinist or an augustinian because that it what I believe.
    Often labels have negative connotations yet they are still often descriptive.

    If there is a nicer term for semipelagianism I don't know what it is.
     
  6. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    OK, then...Roman Catholics believe in original sin, as do you...are you Roman Catholic?
     
  7. Dale-c

    Dale-c Active Member

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    Web there are many things that Roman Catholics believe that I also believe. That does not make me a roman catholic.

    If you believe that there are three coeternal persons who are all equally God, one in being, one in purpose etc you are a trinitarian whether you know what the term means or not.
    There is a huge difference between a theological term for a specific belief and being a member of a particular denomination.

    Your believe is probably closest to semi pelagianism rather than full pelagianism.

    BUt if your beliefs line up that is what you are like it or not.

    By definition I am NOT a catholic and it is absurd for you to say so.
    By definition I AM a calvinist. Whether I choose to use the term or not.

    By the way, it is you that believes with Rome on the subject of the will closer than I do.

    I would take the position of Luther, you of Erasmus.
     
  8. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    It would help for you to know the definition for the very thing you throw the accusation around (loosely, I might add) http://www.theopedia.com/Semi-Pelagianism

    I do NOT hold to this belief, as I do NOT believe man can seek God APART from Him, nor do I believe sin had no affect on man's nature, nor do I believe God's sovereignty is limited to man's will, nor do I believe salvation is a combination of man's effort and God's. I would appreciate it if you would stop referring to me (and others here on the BB) as pelagian, or semi-pelagian, since I have NOT seen this view here on the BB. My beliefs do not align up with this heresy "whether I like it or not". Only someone speaking from pure ignorance would continue to throw these false accusations around. In the same way that it is "absurd" to claim you are a RC, it is equally absurd to claim someone is pelagian or semi-pelagian because the believe a sinner is one who sins, like the Bible teaches.
     
    #28 webdog, Aug 17, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 17, 2009
  9. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    You would have done well to leave the keyboard alone. It is nonsense to believe that a two year old can sin against God. You sound almost like Aaron!
     
  10. TCGreek

    TCGreek New Member

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    Ultimately death comes to all because of sin.
     
  11. Amy.G

    Amy.G New Member

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    I do not believe that infants willingly sin. They do follow the nature they inherited from our earthly father Adam as we see when a child hits another and has that guilty look on their face, but they have no knowledge of good and evil. They are innocent. But eventually, they will understand and have that knowledge. That is when they will die spiritually and can only be redeemed through faith in Christ. If a child picks up a gun and points it at someone and pulls the trigger, is it murder? Did he intentionally kill the person? Yes, murder is sin and a sin was committed, but the child did not understand that. God will not hold him accountable.
    There were sacrifices offered in the OT for unintentional sin. I believe Christ offered Himself as a sacrifice for infants who unintentionally sin and therefore they are covered by the blood of Christ and counted righteous.

    Perhaps there is little mentioned in the Bible about infant salvation because it is not an issue. They are saved. Just a thought.
     
    #31 Amy.G, Aug 17, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 17, 2009
  12. TCGreek

    TCGreek New Member

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    Because of the first sin of Adam and Eve physical death comes to all, whether an infant or not.
     
  13. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    Yes it would be unjust which is why the innocent do not die spiritually. Babies die for physcial reasons same as everyone else. We are all appointed to physcially die once. But the spirit doesn't die it returns to the one who gave it, and He's in Heaven.
    MB
     
  14. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    Before proceeding with this discussion it would be beneficial if those who believe that infants sin would tell us just how they commit sin.
     
    #34 OldRegular, Aug 17, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 17, 2009
  15. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    Good post Amy. You answered my question above in part. Now it would be good if those who believe infants are black hearted sinners and are hell bound would tell us just how infants sin.
     
  16. FlyForFun

    FlyForFun New Member

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    Excellent point.

    "Unless you become as one of these..."

    Who was Jesus talking about?
     
  17. Dale-c

    Dale-c Active Member

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    Amy, does the unsaved farmer know he is sinning when he plows his field? WIll God still judge him for that?
    How about the man in france who has never once heard the gospel? Does God still hold him accountable?
     
  18. Amy.G

    Amy.G New Member

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    Is it a sin to plow your field? Not sure what you're implying but according to Paul, everyone knows right from wrong.


    Rom 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
    Rom 2:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and [their] thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another

    What does this question have to do with infants?
     
    #38 Amy.G, Aug 17, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 17, 2009
  19. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    While patiently waiting for a response to my post #34 may I say I have yet to see an infant plowing a field.
     
  20. Amy.G

    Amy.G New Member

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    This doctrine of babies in hell is nothing more than saying that God damns people for simply being born. Scripture tells me that people are damned for rejecting Christ. Show me an infant that has rejected Christ.
     
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