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why do some escape God's curse?

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by Aki, Mar 10, 2004.

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  1. Aki

    Aki Member

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    There are a few curses given to Adam and the humankind due to Adam's disobedience in the garden. these are:

    1. Spiritual Death.
    2. Physical Death.
    3. Men would sweat for food or livelihood.
    4. Women would go through hard labor for childbirth.

    looking at items 1 and 2, it is clear that everyone are under these curse.

    items 3 and 4, however, are not distributed to each human being. indeed, numerous individuals can be seen who live lives without hard work, due to econmic imbalance, etc.

    also, i watched TV last evening and learned that in a few decades the medical industry might make it to store gene banks and have reproduction at the laboratory, and not in the mother's womb.

    how come men get to escape God's curse? it was developed in my mind that there is no exception when God punished Adam, both physically and spiritually. empirical examples however show otherwise.

    any thoughts?
     
    #1 Aki, Mar 10, 2004
  2. pinoybaptist

    pinoybaptist Active Member
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    by Aki:

    No, they don't. At the end of the world, everyone whose names were not written in the book of life will be judged.

    Do women no longer experience pain at childbirth ? Only perhaps when they go thru the Section, and are put under. But there is still pain, when they wake up.

    Anyway, I won't pretend to know all the answers, friend. I can only quote scripture from a question of practically the same context.

     
    #2 pinoybaptist, Mar 10, 2004
  3. Helen

    Helen <img src =/Helen2.gif>

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    The most ancient of texts we have, the Alexandrian LXX, gives something a little different about childbearing:

    Verse 16 -- how many arguments have been started because we have read that Eve's pains in childbearing should be increased, making it seem as though she might have already had children! Here is what the ancient text says:

    "I will greating mulitiply your pains and your groanings;
    with pain you will bring forth children.
    Your turning will be to your husband
    and he will rule over you.
    from http://www.baptistboard.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi/topic/65/6.html?

    Women do experience labor PAINS. I was only in labor and delivery for four hours with the only child I could have. That's really short! They were labor PAINS, honest!

    But notice that our pain and groaning, IN GENERAL, is what is to be multiplied. And parenting is painful many, many times, in many ways.

    regarding cultivation:
    Verse 17 -- again we have some differences in meaning:

    And to Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened to the voice of thy wife, and eaten of the tree concerning which I charged thee of it only not to eat -- of that thou hast eaten, cursed the ground in thy labours, in pain shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life.

    Just as not all types of sin apply to every man, nor does every man have each gift, it is also true that not every man has the same problems and pains. Yet the fact that the farmer is always at the bottom of the socio-economic scale in all cultures does say a lot about the pain and work involved. It is also interesting to note that those who do NOT have to work for their food are often subject to problems that come with overeating!

    No one has escaped. We all have problems and pain in exactly the areas God outlined to Adam and Eve.
     
    #3 Helen, Mar 10, 2004
  4. Askjo

    Askjo New Member

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    5. The cursed world.
     
    #4 Askjo, Mar 10, 2004
  5. Aki

    Aki Member

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    medicine is on its way to concieve the child apart from the womb, and only at the laboratory, by means of advancing genetic technology. having said that, then, women now can escape from the curse of painful child labor. i think God's curse to Eve was literally the painful child bearing, and not the parenting. the point is, there will be no more child bearing, since science is finding it's replacement for the womb.

    the curse to Adam, on the other hand, is labor for food, which are not experienced by some.
     
    #5 Aki, Mar 11, 2004
  6. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    Don't hold your breath for a "replacement for the womb" Aki.

    And the generic "labor for food" of course does not apply to each individual, but to mankind generally.

    My grandkids don't work a lick, but I will give them mac-and-cheese. It THAT breaking a curse?

    Same with a millionaire who worked hard for $$, then gave it to child and he doesn't "work". But work HAS been done. No such thing as a free lunch.
     
    #6 Dr. Bob, Mar 11, 2004
  7. Aki

    Aki Member

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    i thought about it. i think when God told Adam that he would work to eat, it implied some things:

    1. everything will be worked for.
    2. man can work doubly hard for today to save for tomorrow.
    3. man can work for other other people.
    4. there can be cheating, stealing and other kinds of unfair treatment against each other for food.
    5. man can do anything he wants with whatever and everything he gains from work.

    combinations of these things can indeed lead to some not to work yet eat. but in the end, all food are worked for. that is the thought of the curse.

    Sir Bob, forgive me, but i am one of those students who would need to take a remidial class to pass my English course. I do not know what is meant when you say "Don't hold your breath for a "replacement for the womb" Aki."

    does that mean that the "replacement" can't simply come to reality? or does it mean that it doesn't matter if it happens since even with it, man still has not outsmarted God?
     
    #7 Aki, Mar 11, 2004
  8. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    Good question. Right now they can fertilize an egg and allow it to reproduce in the lab. But that's as far as they can go. They then MUST implant it in a womb for it to become viable.

    I'm not thinking that they will have an artificial womb in our life time.

    But then, my grandpa scoffed at the idea that man would fly . . . :rolleyes:
     
    #8 Dr. Bob, Mar 11, 2004
  9. Grasshopper

    Grasshopper Active Member
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    Where in scripture does it say Adam lost physical immortality?
     
    #9 Grasshopper, Mar 13, 2004
  10. russell55

    russell55 New Member

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    "Don't hold your breath" is an idiom. It means that you wouldn't want to quit breathing while you waited for it to come. In other words, it is either a long way off in the future, or it won't ever happen.
     
    #10 russell55, Mar 13, 2004
  11. R. Charles Blair

    R. Charles Blair New Member

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    Aki - Also read Psalm 73. The Psalmist Asaph had the same questions. Best - Charles - Ro. 8:28
     
    #11 R. Charles Blair, Mar 13, 2004
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