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Featured Why do some Reformed/Calvinist "pastors" advocate unbiblical evangelism?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by evangelist6589, Jan 4, 2014.

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  1. padredurand

    padredurand Well-Known Member
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    • No methodology has ever saved a single person.
    • No book authored by mortal man has ever saved a single person.
    • No preacher - street or pulpit notwithstanding - has ever saved a single person.

     
    #41 padredurand, Jan 4, 2014
  2. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    :thumbs::wavey:
     
    #42 Iconoclast, Jan 4, 2014
  3. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    preachinjesus

    [/QUOTE]
    PJ

    :wavey::thumbs::wavey: While i could dispute a few ideas offered here,I will not do so. That is because I agree with the overall thrust of your thread and view them as being meant to help the Op go in a more comprehensive direction.
     
    #43 Iconoclast, Jan 4, 2014
  4. pinoybaptist

    pinoybaptist Active Member
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    I thought you were of the 'Reformed' persuasion. Shouldn't you know that one can rub an unregenerate sinner's face in the law 24x7x365 and the best it would do is 'reform' (no pun intended, or should there be ? :laugh:) him, while OTOH, a cannibal would never have heard of the gospel or of the Name of Christ, and yet, could suddenly be ostracized by his tribe for refusing to murder human beings for food anymore because "something" in his inner being (a.k.a. the Holy Spirit) convicts him of the evil of the practice?
     
    #44 pinoybaptist, Jan 4, 2014
  5. padredurand

    padredurand Well-Known Member
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    Adding a specific methodology of presenting the Gospel as a condition of salvation is unbiblical.
     
    #45 padredurand, Jan 4, 2014
  6. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    Jeeze.....just how long have we "Old School Baptists" been saying that?!?:laugh:
     
    #46 Earth Wind and Fire, Jan 4, 2014
  7. padredurand

    padredurand Well-Known Member
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    Forever. I was just feeling needy today and wanted your affirmation. :tongue3:


    Now I'm going to go read the best selling religious book ever printed: 66 books written by 40 authors over 1600 years with one crimson thread wound from the first to the last....
     
    #47 padredurand, Jan 4, 2014
  8. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    Kiss kiss:smilewinkgrin:

    Thank God for being Welshmen blood:thumbs: been Baptists forever almost...right Yoda!
     
    #48 Earth Wind and Fire, Jan 4, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 4, 2014
  9. padredurand

    padredurand Well-Known Member
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    My ancestor Roger Williams (The Rhode Island guy not the piano player) must have been a miserable failure. He didn't have many books to tell him how to "do the work of the evangelist and fulfill (his) ministry." (2 Tim 4:5)
     
    #49 padredurand, Jan 4, 2014
  10. JohnDeereFan

    JohnDeereFan Well-Known Member
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    No, you posted verses you claim are about "friendship evangelism".

    No, people who post unrelated verses don't know what it is.
     
    #50 JohnDeereFan, Jan 4, 2014
  11. thisnumbersdisconnected

    thisnumbersdisconnected New Member

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    If you can prove to me John 4:28-30, 41, 42 don't illustrate friendship evangelism, I'll apologize. Let's see what you got. Denying they are indicative of friendship evangelism isn't proof, it's rhetoric. Bad rhetoric, at that.

    Like I said ...
     
    #51 thisnumbersdisconnected, Jan 4, 2014
  12. evangelist6589

    evangelist6589 Well-Known Member
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    Erwin Lutzer in his book Life Changing Bible Verses You Should Know pp. 167

    Quote:
    True Friendship is still the best means of evangelism
    The rest of the chapter he goes on to explain his view, but not once does he mention using the LAW to convict, but he makes a good case for friendship evangelism.

    Kent Hughes Disciplines of a Godly Man, pp. 207

    Quote:
    Statistics indicate that ordinary Andrew relational evangelism is the most effective way to go.
    He goes on to explain why he thinks this and the chapter seems to be all about Andrew friendship evangelism and he makes no reference to using the LAW to convict of sin, nor to address the conscience of the sinner.
    __________________
     
    #52 evangelist6589, Jan 5, 2014
  13. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    How is this “unbiblical evangelism”? Instances in the bible where the evangelist did not use the Law to convict of sin or address the conscience of the sinner have already been mentioned in this thread. (I believe you that some Reformed authors do not incorporate "the Law method," but I don’t understand how this is “unbiblical”).
     
    #53 JonC, Jan 5, 2014
  14. padredurand

    padredurand Well-Known Member
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    The Law convicts no one.

    John 16:7-11 NAS77
    7 "But I tell you the truth, it is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper shall not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him to you.
    8 "And He, when He comes, will convict the world concerning sin, and righteousness, and judgment;
    9 concerning sin, because they do not believe in Me;
    10 and concerning righteousness, because I go to the Father, and you no longer behold Me;
    11 and concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world has been judged.
     
    #54 padredurand, Jan 5, 2014
  15. evangelist6589

    evangelist6589 Well-Known Member
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    Unless WOTM is not entirely correct which may be the case. In that event Lutzer is not wrong about his views on evangelism. Hmm....
     
    #55 evangelist6589, Jan 5, 2014
  16. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I have not read WOTM’s evangelistic method but have watched several of the “Kirk and Ray” videos. It’s a method towards evangelism. But it is not “the” biblical method. I am not sure if it is even “a” biblical method for reaching the non-Jewish lost who did not identify with the Law. I say it’s not “the” biblical method because there are instances where other approaches were used (for example, those previously mentioned of Jesus and Paul). Does WOTM say that convicting sinners under the Law is the only biblical method of evangelism?
     
    #56 JonC, Jan 5, 2014
  17. evangelist6589

    evangelist6589 Well-Known Member
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    http://thecripplegate.com/concerns-with-the-way-of-the-master/
     
    #57 evangelist6589, Jan 5, 2014
  18. padredurand

    padredurand Well-Known Member
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    Jesus says the Holy Spirit convicts. Comfort says it is the law that does it.

    A powerless gospel?

    For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance; as ye know what manner of men we were among you for your sake.
    1 Thessalonians 1:5 KJV
     
    #58 padredurand, Jan 5, 2014
  19. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    Been to Providence lately?
     
    #59 Earth Wind and Fire, Jan 5, 2014
  20. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I have to say that I agree with the criticisms the article offers…if this is the intent of WOTM. I think that the 10 Commandments are a good starting place to illustrate our sinfulness, but this presupposes the person to whom you are speaking accepts at least somewhat of a Christian foundation. Otherwise you end up “selling” what is a debatable theological issue of Gentiles being “under the Law” to someone who isn’t even saved (and this before you can even get to the gospel of Christ).
     
    #60 JonC, Jan 5, 2014
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