Why do you believe the Bible is the word of God?

It's translated both ways in many translations not just the KJV. Actually I don't place any faith in the Alexandrian text.
We are not Judged by our own righteousness Webdog. Which is why we wear the righteousness of Christ. The Jews thought they knew the path and they figured it was being righteous themselves. So they set out to clean them selves up in vain because they never achived the righteousness that's necessary.
Rom 10:1 Brethren, my heart's desire and my supplication to God is for them, that they may be saved.
Rom 10:2 For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge.
Rom 10:3 For being ignorant of God's righteousness, and seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God.
Rom 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law unto righteousness to every one that believeth.

As far as this verse;
Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

How can man be saved by his own faith? When we are commanded to believe in Him? and it not be by the law

Didn't Christ also command men to believe in Him in this verse?
Joh 14:1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
If so then our belief is a work of the law. Before you say no it isn't, remember that rebellion is sin. Isn't rebellion non belief?
I make no claims that the King James is perfect but it's a lot better than any NASV

We do not believe that we might be justified by our own belief because our righteousness is as filthy rags.
To have faith in God is to Love God. To Love God is to obey His commandments. Loving God is obeying His commandmens.

If we are saved by our righteousness then why are told by Christ to seek God's righteousness? Why do we need it if we have our own?.
Mat 6:33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

Dismissing Jn: 15 as being written to the disciples. Why do you suppose it was only the twelve when it is widely known He had many disciples who followed Him all over the place. Especially by Jn. 15. Salvation for disciples then is the same today. God doesn't have an individual plan of Salvation for everyone. We are all saved the same way. We are saved by the grace of Jesus Christ and not by faith. We are all chosen by Him and we all wear His righteousness or we aren't saved...

Today I follow Him and I believe that makes me a disciple of Christ.

MB

 

There is a huge difference between Christ's righteousness and Christ's faith. I agree we need Christ's righteousness, but this comes through our faith in Christ.

Correct, it's by the Holy Spirit. Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God. It's still our faith, nonetheless.

Couple problems here. First, Ephesians 2:8-9 clearly states belief (faith) is not a work. Second, rebellion is sin but not necessaliy non belief. Jonah rebelled, but he still had faith.

I'm not dismissing John 15, just putting it back into context. You are eisegeting John 15. The context of who Jesus is speaking to goes back to chapter 13 (Lords Supper) and continues through chapter 17. It clearly is His "chosen" 12, and not many disciples as you have alluded to.

 

I agree

Our elderly neighbor, to whom we have witnessed, believes that the Bible is fallible, written by various men...not particularly accurate either.

We pray that the love that we have for him will witness to him...that he will see Christ in us as we befriend him and his ailing wife. We are the only ones in our neighborhood who have reached out to them, bringing them meals, sitting with his wife, offering for our children to cut his lawn for free....this is not to our account, but it is Christ in us who loves him.

I do not believe you can talk anyone into having faith in the Bible being the Word of God.

 

Yes that's true there is a difference between the two. What I'd like to get accross is that what saves is a righteous faith. What I don't think most people see is that Jesus Christ does have, or is faithful. One has to have faith in order to be faith-full. Faith is much more than hope. Faith in it's purest form is unmovable it is stead fast and there is nothing in of the man that is perfect. You said earlier that your bible says this;
Gal 2:16 yet knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, even we believed on Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the law: because by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

If you look at this a little closer you'll see that the NASV is actually saying here that we believe in faith, and the faith we believe in, might save us. What faith is it we believe in. Aren't we to believe in Jesus Christ and not necessarily faith it self? Are we to believe in our own abilities of faith. You see you say "the KJV really messed this one up."
I have no doubt of the moumental task of translation. it's just that in this particular verse there is no words that could be translated as "through" or "in" There is no "of" either, in the original it was taken from. This according to Greens interlinear.

Let's take a look;
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

What Eph 2:8 very plainly says that faith is not of our selves. If it isn't of our selves and it is a "gift" then it belonged to someone else before we got it.
I just do not see where it says faith is not a work. Even the faith we are saved by is a work; ( "by that I mean a work of God"). God gives us our faith as well by hearing His blessed Word.

Then why does verse 1 and 2 speak to the whole membership of the body? If it was addressed only to the twleve ?
Joh 15:1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
Joh 15:2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

It seems you're saying that they were saved by a different process by saying we weren't chosen to be disciples or followers of Christ.
What is good enought for the twelve is good enough for me. The Bible wasn't writen as a personal message to individuals but was writen for the whole world. It's speaks to everyone even the condemned.
MB

 

Scripture for a "righteous faith"? That's the first I have heard of that. I've heard of calvinism's "saving faith", which I know there is no Scripture to support (there is only faith that saves...in Christ).

That cannot be the correct exegesis based on the greek. Calvinists and non calvinists alike with knowledge of the greek agree to the notion "that" is referring back to the whole of "you are saved by grace through faith"...salvation. That is the gift, not faith. This has been refuted many times.

Your hermeunetical approach to this passage leaves much to be desired. I already showed the context of these chapters is in relation to the twelve, not every believer in all times. If you are going to pick a couple verses out of context to build your argument on, I can't debate this any longer.

 

Haven't you read about the mustard seed? It will sprout given the right soil, light, and water. If we had it's faith we could move mountains. This is a perfect faith. What ever is perfect is righteous. Christ is righteous because He is perfect. Our righteousness is like filthy rags in comparason Truthfully it isn't worth much.

There is more than one gift. When you first heard the gospel you most likely didn't have any faith in God but by hearing the gospel you came to believe while the Holy Spirit worked to convince you of the truth. Once convinced you had faith. You were convinced by a work of God all you did was listen. You didn't decide to have faith you were either convinced or you weren't. If it were of your self then you could boast. While your being convinced by the hearing of the word and the Spirit. God is giving you the Grace you are saved by.

Web dog I can only tell you the truth I can't force you to accept it.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

If Grace and faith isn't of yourself God had to give it to you.
MB

 

Mustard seeds don't have faith! Jesus was saying if we had faith the size of a mustard seed...not the faith OF a mustard seed!

There isn't more than one gift. THE gift spoken of in that passage is salvation. That is the truth. Calvinists and non calvinists alike agree to that.

...that doesn't mean faith is a gift. It means we are saved by God's grace THROUGH faith and we do not have to work for it. That's truth.

 

Yeah........ thats why he can say to the one who does not have faith..... "well I have faith and you don't." But I'm not boasting... :laugh:

 

The End from The Beginning

Forgive me if I missed a post, and someone has already beaten me to this passage and thought. But, this is the answer that I do give, regularly.

Isaiah 46:9 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me,
10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

God not only knows the end from the beginning, but informs us that he makes known unto us the end from the beginning through the declaration of that truth. Prophesy fulfilled time after time, on time, without error, hundreds (and in some cases, thousands) of years in advance of the fulfillment of such events, is the proof positive of the Bible as The Word of God. No other manuscript can make claim to even the shadow of comparable feats.

Unfortunately, nothing will satisfy an unbeliever. But it is the truth, and the place to start.

Facts. A thing which can not be denied, only rejected in the face of non-acceptance.

 

Not even your Bible says that. It says; "as a grain of mustard seed"

I disagree;
1Co 12:4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.

I'm really trying to understand how you can say it's not a work and not a gift. If God gave it to you then it's a gift. He didn't have to give it to you. If you didn't work for it and it wasn't given to you then where did you get faith in Christ?. If you got it from hearing the Word it has to be a work of God. The preacher you heard the word from was using the Bible. and he too works for God.
Joh 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
MB

 

It's ludicrous for you to insist a seed has faith. Can mustard seeds put their faith in Christ? unbelievable....
Luke 17:5 (HCSB)The (H) apostles (I) said to the Lord, "Increase our faith." (J)
6 "If you have faith the size of [e] a mustard seed," (K) the Lord said, "you can say to this mulberry tree, 'Be uprooted and planted in the sea,' and it will obey you.

Now you context lift another verse talking about spiritual gifts to compare to the gift of salvation from God in Ephesians 2? unbelievable...

I'm not saying it, the Bible said it in Ephesians 2:8-9

Salvation, yes...what "that" is referring to in Ephesians 2:8-9...not faith.

 

I have no doubt that we have faith but we aquire faith always in the same ways. We either believe what we hear about a subject or we have faith because of previous experince. In the case of Christ we hear about Him and begin to believe. Is this faith something we think of with out knowledge or is it souly because we hear about Christ and in that process begin to believe? If we believe because of the work of another our being convinced isn't of our own doing. There fore, we receive faith through what we hear about Christ and the hearing and the believing are gifts. God didn't have to tell us about Him and His Son. and if He hadn't we wouldn't have faith in Him.
Christ said;
Joh 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
It is the work of God that we believe. He died that we might believe and be saved.
Paul wrote;
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Paul speaking about grace through faith and then saying; "and that not of yourselves:" I believe Paul is saying that we must have faith although the faith we are saved by is the faith of Christ.
Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
In other words it isn't our faith but the faith of Christ just like it isn't our righteousness but the righteousness of Christ that we wear. Salvation is souly the work of God all we did was listen with out rebelling.
MB