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Why God forbid the Jews to eat Pork.

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Ben W, Jul 29, 2005.

  1. hillclimber

    hillclimber New Member

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    The bottom line is "how many ways are there to ignore the Word of God?".

    In other words -- if we dont simply "ignore all of it" then can we just turn a blind eye to EVERYTHING before the cross?

    You know - the Gospels and ALL the OT???

    What about just ignoring the first 5 books of the Bible?

    OF course that would mean that all the NT writers were wrong to quote those 5 books -- but we could pretend not to notice that - couldn't we?

    In Christ,

    Bob
    </font>[/QUOTE]I'm certainly not advocating ignoring any of the Bible. But differentiate between the different areas of it, with the Golden rule of Bible Study:
    1. Who is speaking?

    2. To whom is he speaking?

    3. About what is he speaking?

    4. When was it spoken?

    All the Bible was written for you
    Not all was written to you
    Not all was written about you
     
  2. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    I was wondering if any SDA's here believe that eating pork condemns a Christian to hell?

    I met a few about four years back who believed this.

    God Bless!
     
  3. Johnv

    Johnv New Member

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    Caudia, that's a 7th Day Adventist website. They believe that eating ANY animal is unhealthy. Plus, they believe we're all sinning because we gather for worship on Sunday instead of Saturday.
     
  4. TorahKeeper

    TorahKeeper Guest

    I wonder why people are so eager to dismiss the very words of God? He said not to eat it, if you truly are His own would you not want to obey Him? I guess thats too simple?
     
  5. prophecynut

    prophecynut New Member

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    Romans 14:20

    "Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All food is clean , but it is wrong for a man to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble." NIV
     
  6. Johnv

    Johnv New Member

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    He also said to refrain from sitting on a chair tha a menstruating woman has sat upon. Do you do that as well? Gos also says to offer animal sacrifice as a reminder of sin. Do we still do that? God said to wear distinctive clothing apart from the gentiles. I wear the same clothing as the gentiles. God commanded that every male be circumcised on the 8th day. Do we as Christians do that still? (the majority of Christians don't circumcise their sons at all). God commands in the OT to celebrate passover with a sacrificed passover lamb. Do we still do that?


    God never instructs without a reason. The reasons for these and other old Covenant laws has long since passed.
     
  7. TorahKeeper

    TorahKeeper Guest

    If ye love me, keep my commandments.

    I wonder who said that???

    Of course if you separate the Son and the Father then you get to ignore His commandments.

    Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

    Wonder who said that?

    And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

    Wonder who said that??

    For I [am] the LORD, I change not..

    Guess who said that?

    Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

    Anyone wanna guess who said that??

    Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching [for] doctrines the commandments of men. For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, [as] the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.

    Sounds like someone was speaking of the 'modern' day church to me, but what do I know.

    You may disagree with me but remember, the Law was spoken by the very Mouth of God Himself. So if you want to eliminate it, remember this, you will get to explain that to Him one day, I hope you have a good answer.
     
  8. Johnv

    Johnv New Member

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    Then answer my questions:

    God also said to refrain from sitting on a chair tha a menstruating woman has sat upon. Do you do that as well?

    God also says to offer animal sacrifice as a reminder of sin. Do you do that?

    God said to wear distinctive clothing apart from the gentiles. I wear the same clothing as the gentiles. What clothing do you wear?

    God commanded that every male be circumcised on the 8th day. Do we as Christians do that still? Do you? (the majority of Christians don't circumcise their sons at all).

    God commands in the OT to celebrate passover with a sacrificed passover lamb. Do we still do that?
     
  9. TorahKeeper

    TorahKeeper Guest

    I guess we can just eliminate God's commandments. Its ok, God didnt really mean it when He said to be obedient.

    Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching [for] doctrines the commandments of men. For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, [as] the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.

    I guess Yeshua didn't really mean that did He, He was just kiddin'
     
  10. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    Good questions Johnv. I would like to hear answers to these from TorahKeeper as well.

    God Bless!
     
  11. Petrel

    Petrel New Member

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    TorahKeeper, you accept the New Testament, right? The abolition of circumcision as a requirement for believers is a major event in New Testament history. We believe that the Law was given to the people so that they would become aware of their sin (Romans 3:20) and of the necessity for a blood sacrifice to cover that sin (Hebrews 9:6-10).

    In fact, that Hebrews reference is so clear I'll post it in greater length (6-15).

    As I see it, all of the ceremonial laws regarding uncleaness, whether from touching a dead animal, eating unclean meat, sitting where a menstruating woman had sat--all of that was just to illustrate to the people the importance of being separate from the world and also the impossibility of remaining clean by their own efforts. Ultimately they all needed a sacrifice.

    The ceremonial uncleaness and the sacrifical system required to purge it were a type of what was to come. That was Jesus, who became both High Priest and sacrifice for us in the Most Holy never seen by human eyes.

    Hebrews 10:11-25
    Jesus made the final sacrifice that is forever sufficient to cover all of our sins. Trying to follow the ceremonial Law at this point would be like running through the dress rehearsal after the last curtain call.

    There are still parts of the Law that are in effect today. The parts governing morality are still in effect. However, I don't think that the distinction between the clean and unclean animals is based on this type of morality. I think the separation of clean and unclean was more to illustrate the way that the Chosen People had been separated from the world. Evidence of this is found in Paul's vision in Acts 10. There the unclean animals that he is told to eat are symbolic of the Gentiles. The purpose of the dream was to tell Paul to take the gospel to the Gentiles, so the division between the Jews and the Gentiles had been abolished and thus the reason for calling animals unclean.

    The very fact that meat from unclean animals isn't really considered in the New Testament argues that it isn't important now. All of the evidence that we have regarding meat (Acts 10, Romans 14:20, Acts 15) indicates that the clean/unclean divide had been done away with. When coupled with the teachings on the Law in Galatians and Hebrews, I think it becomes clear that this isn't an issue for us today.

    Sorry to get so long-winded. The topic of the Law and how it foreshadows Jesus is really interesting to me! :D
     
  12. Johnv

    Johnv New Member

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    Torahkeeper, you have not yet answered my questions:

    God also said to refrain from sitting on a chair tha a menstruating woman has sat upon. Do you do that as well?

    God also says to offer animal sacrifice as a reminder of sin. Do you do that?

    God said to wear distinctive clothing apart from the gentiles. I wear the same clothing as the gentiles. What clothing do you wear?

    God commanded that every male be circumcised on the 8th day. Do we as Christians do that still? Do you? (the majority of Christians don't circumcise their sons at all).

    God commands in the OT to celebrate passover with a sacrificed passover lamb. Do we still do that?
     
  13. TorahKeeper

    TorahKeeper Guest

    If you knew anything about the sacrificial system you would know that you can only sacrifice on a altar properly dedicated to God at the Temple, so I cannot do those. The other commandments, I do them as best as I can. Does that provide or maintain my salvation? Of course not, its just I have decided to be obedient to the Creator of the World. I guess my question is, why dont you want to be obedient to Him? Why would you encourage others to be dis-obedient?
     
  14. Johnv

    Johnv New Member

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    Does your place of worship engage in animal sacrifices? If they don't, then you should be calling for them, and the rest of us, to adopt this practice.

    Then you should be able to answer the questions. They're simple "yes" or "no":

    Do you refrain from sitting on a chair that a menstruating woman has sat upon?

    Do you wear distinctive clothing to set yourself apart from the gentiles?

    Do you or your church engage in the practice of circumcising your male children on the 8th day after birth.

    Do you celebrate passover with a sacrificed passover lamb?


    I never said it did.
    I don't. I disagree with your requisite for obedience.
     
  15. TorahKeeper

    TorahKeeper Guest

    Like I said before, if you understood the sacrificial system you would know that sacrifices are to be done only on a properly dedicated altar in Jerusalem. If I called for sacrifices or conducted them, I would be in violation. Can I obey the law perfectly, of course not, I never claimed to. I do the best I can. Do I willingly do the things you stated no, if I do mess up, I can be forgiven. I have no children so I havent circumcised anyone.

    If you say we are to not obey these and all the commandments then you are advocating disobedience.

    Choose ye this day whom you will serve, Ba'al or God? The choice is yours. Be careful.
     
  16. Johnv

    Johnv New Member

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    How hypocritical. You tell us we're in disobedience when we eat pork, yet you say clearly that you willingly disobey God's other OT laws. By your own standards, I guess you've chosen whom ye serve.
     
  17. TorahKeeper

    TorahKeeper Guest

    I suppose I should have stated that I dont disobey those commandments, I apologize for the unclear statement. I am not the one who said you are disobedient, talk to the One who spoke the commandment if you dont like it. I have chosen God
     
  18. Johnv

    Johnv New Member

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    Then you can answer my questions:

    Do you refrain from sitting on a chair that a menstruating woman has sat upon?

    Do you wear distinctive clothing to set yourself apart from the gentiles?

    Does your church engage in the practice of circumcising your male children on the 8th day after birth? Will you, if you have a son, circumcize him eight days after birth?

    Do you celebrate passover with a sacrificed passover lamb?
     
  19. TorahKeeper

    TorahKeeper Guest

    How many times do I have to say that I obey.

    Yes I do refrain from the chair.

    I try to keep my clothing separate but its hard to sometimes.

    There is no law that says a congregation is to circumcise a boy.

    How many times do I need to tell you about the sacrifices, can you read????

    Let me ask, do you have any idea why God spoke those Laws?
     
  20. StefanM

    StefanM Well-Known Member
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    TorahKeeper, would you consider the Torah binding on Gentile Christians?
     
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