Why I am "anti-intellectual"

Why should they have to?

 

What???? Are you telling me that you know the definition of every single word in the English language? You never need to look up a word in the dictionary? Amazing!

Please define these words found in the NIV: (no peeking)

brooches

cors (ok, you can look this one up because it's not in the dictionary! :tongue3:

ibex

parapet


That's enough for now.

 

Can I try?

Brooches- pants you wear while making beer?

Cors- the beer you make while wearing brooches?

Ibex- the ex after your fourth ex?

Parapet- when you get two for the price of one at the pet store? :tongue3:

 

:laugh::laugh:


Sorry Winman, you are not intellectual enough to read the NIV! :smilewinkgrin:

 

Study to show thyself approved...
And here is a good article explaining the issue... http://bible.org/article/conspiracy-behind-new-bible-translations

 

When the scriptures say study to show thyself approved, it is speaking of studying the scriptues, not the wisdom of man. The scriptures repeatedly warn of trusting in man's wisdom.

Jer 8:9 The wise men are ashamed, they are dismayed and taken: lo, they have rejected the word of the LORD; and what wisdom is in them?

Prov 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.

1 Cor 3:18 Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise.
19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.
20 And again, The Lord knoweth the thoughts of the wise, that they are vain.

God wants us to study his word with an attitude of trust, believeing his words are true. We are not to lean on our own understanding or the understanding of so called "wise men".

 

No dictionary but I will read them in NIV context:

Exodus 35:22
All who were willing, men and women alike, came and brought gold jewelry of all kinds: brooches, earrings, rings and ornaments. They all presented their gold as a wave offering to the LORD.

Brooches- jewelry.

1. 1 Kings 4:22
   Solomon's daily provisions were thirty cors of fine flour and sixty cors of meal,
   1 Kings 4:21-23 (in Context) 1 Kings 4 (Whole Chapter)
2. 1 Kings 5:11
   and Solomon gave Hiram twenty thousand cors of wheat as food for his household, in addition to twenty thousand baths , of pressed olive oil. Solomon continued to do this for Hiram year after year.
   1 Kings 5:10-12 (in Context) 1 Kings 5 (Whole Chapter)
3. 2 Chronicles 2:10
   I will give your servants, the woodsmen who cut the timber, twenty thousand cors of ground wheat, twenty thousand cors of barley, twenty thousand baths of wine and twenty thousand baths of olive oil."
   2 Chronicles 2:9-11 (in Context) 2 Chronicles 2 (Whole Chapter)
4. 2 Chronicles 27:5
   Jotham made war on the king of the Ammonites and conquered them. That year the Ammonites paid him a hundred talents of silver, ten thousand cors of wheat and ten thousand cors of barley. The Ammonites brought him the same amount also in the second and third years.
   2 Chronicles 27:4-6 (in Context) 2 Chronicles 27 (Whole Chapter)
5. Ezra 7:22
   up to a hundred talents of silver, a hundred cors of wheat, a hundred baths of wine, a hundred baths of olive oil, and salt without limit.
   Ezra 7:21-23 (in Context) Ezra 7 (Whole Chapter)

Cors- a unit of dry measure.

Deut 14:3Do not eat any detestable thing. 4 These are the animals you may eat: the ox, the sheep, the goat, 5 the deer, the gazelle, the roe deer, the wild goat, the ibex, the antelope and the mountain sheep. [a] 6 You may eat any animal that has a split hoof divided in two and that chews the cud.

Ibex- an animal with four legs.

1. Deuteronomy 22:8
   When you build a new house, make a parapet around your roof so that you may not bring the guilt of bloodshed on your house if someone falls from the roof.
   Deuteronomy 22:7-9 (in Context) Deuteronomy 22 (Whole Chapter)
2. Ezekiel 40:13
   Then he measured the gateway from the top of the rear wall of one alcove to the top of the opposite one; the distance was twenty-five cubits from one parapet opening to the opposite one.
   Ezekiel 40:12-14 (in Context) Ezekiel 40 (Whole Chapter)
3. Ezekiel 40:16
   The alcoves and the projecting walls inside the gateway were surmounted by narrow parapet openings all around, as was the portico; the openings all around faced inward. The faces of the projecting walls were decorated with palm trees.
   Ezekiel 40:15-17 (in Context) Ezekiel 40 (Whole Chapter)

Parapet- A wall.

I tutor Developmental English to deaf students at a local college, and before we even tell them to get the dictionary we tell them to try to determine the meaning of unfamiliar words from their context. I seems pretty simple to do that with the NIV. Not so much with the KJV:

1 Timothy 4:12
Let no man despise thy youth; but be thou an example of the believers, in word, in conversation, in charity, in spirit, in faith, in purity.

 

Sorry, but owning many dictionaries, I just have to jump on this one.

I have tutored literacy to adults who came to class because they wanted to read the Bible. One of the first things we did was give each adult student (who was illiterate in English), their own dictionary. I prefer the language dictionaries from Longman. This was a few years ago. I guess they are still around.

Have you ever observed how some church services are literacy-based? If you cannot read, how do you sing the songs in the hymn book or on the big screen? How do you fill out the visitor's card? Etc.

As for singing, many frontier churches did line singing. Here is a sample from the Indian Bottom Association of Old Regular Baptists.

How do individuals who suffer from deafness and illiteracy approach God in song?

. . .

Anyway, here are why we need dictionaries...

Brooches- jewelry.
What kind of jewelry?
What did they look like?
How were they worn?
Who wears them?
Did they have a purpose?

Cors- a unit of dry measure.
What was the quantity that was measured?
How did a person know when a sufficient quantity had been used or exchanged?
What was used to measure the dry substance?

Ibex- an animal with four legs.
What species of animal?
What did this animal look like?
What did this animal eat?
Where did this animal live?
When did this animal eat?
How did this animal obtain its food?
How many young did this animal bear? What was the gestation period?
Why was this animal mentioned in the Bible?

Parapet- A wall.
Try this definition on for clarity:

par·a·pet   [par-uh-pit, -pet]
–noun
1. Fortification.
a. a defensive wall or elevation, as of earth or stone, in a fortification.
b. an elevation raised above the main wall or rampart of a permanent fortification.
2. any low protective wall or barrier at the edge of a balcony, roof, bridge, or the like.
www.dictionary.com​

...Bob :0)
Kentucky

 

You keep saying this, but those who pick one version over all the rest are using their own human wisdom to make that pick.

The word of God gives no guidance in that area. One uses one's own intellect to make that choice.

How can one be 'anti-intellectual' and yet use their own intellect to decide on which translation to use?

Both positions come to their conclusions based on faith in God's promise to preserve his word and intellectual study as to how He does so. Both views incorporate faith and intellect. The only difference is where their intellectual study as to how He preserves His word leads them to make a choice.

Is it not possible for us to have the liberty to allow each other to go through this process without condemnation?

 

Thank you Bob. You have proven my point about why we need to reference a dictionary for unfamiliar words. And ALL versions contain these words, not just the KJV. So those that say that they don't need a dictionary because their preferred version is in modern language are deliberately remaining ignorant just to prove a point.

 

You need to be absolutist only on things which are absolute. You're not going to find these words in the NIrV,NCV,CEV,TEV etc.

You seem to love to go over old ground repeatedly Amy. The KJV,by far has many more unfamiliar words than does the NIV for example. That has been proven many other times -- but you tend to resist reality.

 

"Ignorant" is such a strong word. But if you suppose me to be so, then I will accept it.

Nice to see that you are not one that believes in the "Self-defining KJV".:smilewinkgrin:

 

So were my definitions wrong? It appears not. What was your point then?

I love dictionaries, I love to play word games that use unfamiliar words and try to guess the meaning from the context. I read a lot of college textbooks that contain unfamiliar words and yes, I use the dictionary when needed, But when I read the Bible, I want to read it in a language and a context that I am familiar with.

 

Define "reality".:smilewinkgrin:

 

I have two letters written in 1668 and 1689, not many years after the 1611 KJV. The language is somewhat different to 1611 showing how much the common language had changed in just a few years. I will try to post them for interest.

Cheers,

Jim

 

The Tempest by Shakespeare was finished and performed first in 1611. I think there is clearly a difference between the two texts. There are some similarities but the 1611 seems to be using an older version of the language than was common in 1611.

 

I was responding to Mexdef's post in which he asked why would anyone need a dictionary. His point was that if you read a modern version, you won't need a dictionary. I pointed out that every version has obscure words that need to be defined. That is all.
And no one covers "old ground" better than you, the reviver of ancient threads! :laugh::laugh:

:1_grouphug:

 

Whatever I say it is. :laugh:

 

I'm getting into this discussion kinda late, but please inform me as to where where God has stated this. Surely you have read this somewhere in Scripture, but I don't remember reading it anywhere.

Or do you just presume to speak for God (and I hope that's not the case).