Why I left the RCC

But you must understand that our history and heritage is one of violence at the hands of your fore-fathers.

Hank,

Would you buy this line if you heard it from a black person about his/her heritage? Do you believe black people ought to be reimbursed for the abuse their fore-fathers received?

 

Who here is asking to be reimbursed??
Hank's statement about Roman Catholic persecution is very accurate. Are you offended by it?

 

Who was talking about being offended??
Gee, DHK, let's see how far we can take this topic off track and attack some people.


I must also add, DHK, that you're offering a perfect example of what a grudge can do to someone. I sometimes wonder if compassion and forgiveness are things you are capable of. It amazes me how the sins of the past are put on our backs as if we were to make personal "reimbursement" for. You always make me feel unwelcome in your presence.

[ September 15, 2002, 12:21 AM: Message edited by: GraceSaves ]

 

Because they are too busy attending prayer meetings & Bible studies and preaching the Gospel to the lost that they might believe and be saved. I'm not a Baptist but this past week I went to church everyday except Monday and Tuesday.

 

Because Tuor was responding to Hank, who was responding to me. It was all interconnected.

And you do have a grudge with the Catholic Church; please don't try and deny that now.

 

And I will do my utmost to show others how Biblical and correct the doctrine of the Catholic Church is.

 

and the cat and the dogs fight on and on....

If they are not willing to listen just move on eventually some one will listen....

I read this post from start to finish....very sad how a bunch of grown ups just can't come to terms that each of you are strong in your beliefs... I can hear the keys being hit hard as I read each post as you try to let each other know what is right and what is wrong....WHAT IS THE POINT????

The Gospel of Jesus Christ will be preached to every living soul on this earth not one will say but I have never heard of Jesus...for all will bow before the Heavenly Father and confess that Jesus Christ is God's Son...Preach the gospel don't bicker for it is unprofitable and vain.

 

Jesus commanded Peter the first Pope of the Catholic church to "Feed his people". To Catholics we willingly come to the table to recieve this truth. I can see how as a protestant, one in rebellion with the church founded by Jesus that you would consider it force feeding yourself.

Second we do not need soul liberty (by the way which I still not have seen scripture evidence of this doctrine) we already have the truth. You say you have we have no freedom, the fact that we have the full and complete truth the correct interpretation of scripture, we are free. As it says, the truth will set you free.

Yes we did have the spanish inquisition which was wrong but this did not effect the interpretation of scripture, and if you dig deeper into history you will see that a much greater persecustion by the government was taking place. You as a protestant have your own inquistiion at the time of the reformation when protestants killed thosands of Catholic christians.

I do not condem protestants, I just want to bring them to the fullness of the truth. But with some Baptists on here, they are eager to proclaim judgement on us Catholics, that we will be condemed before God. Truly look at the Catholic church with open eyes and you will see its beauty

Yours in Christ
Daniel

 

Reparation of the slaves.

This is a sore point between my wife and I.

She is a dyed-in-the-wool Conservative Republican, I am a Pro-Life Independent.

Yes, as a matter of fact, I support a reparation.

It is indeed a difficult problem because so much time has passed since the failed Reconstruction.
I love my country but I am disappointed with my government because of Roe vs Wade and other matters such as slavery.
A nation like people has sins.

The Church of Rome on the other hand is supposedly the true Church of Jesus Christ.
The earthly spiritual leader, the pope, the Vicar of Christ on earth. Christ who said "love one another" not "burn them at the stake".

The problem:
The Church of Rome married the Roman empire and the Holy Roman Empire came to be (800-1800AD).
A bloodbath followed unparalleled in history
(The Crusades, The Spanish and Latin Inquisitions, persecutions of the Anabaptists, Waldenses, Hugenots, Albigenses, etc.).

The non-Catholics here at the BB are the spiritual descendants of the survivors.

Solution: The Church of Rome needs to repent and divorce herself from the world.
It's possible, with God all things are possible.

HankD

 

That's good. Nice to see how the truth changes with the day and age (IE. Who is in power at the time).

Firstly, we are not all protestants! Phew. Got that out my system. This is such a simple idea and yet people still think if someone is not catholic they are protestant. Simply not the case.

Secondly, I won't speak of any 'beauty' as that is a subjective matter. Rather, I will address the objective matter of the church being the 'fullness of the truth'. There are several test's to see if this is a truthful statement or one made in error. Does the catholic church and it's doctrine pass these simple tests?

1. Has any single or group of doctrinal statements changed through out the churches history? Not added to or 'refined', but changed. If yes, the cc is not what you claim.

2. Has something which is infallibly declared been contradicted later by another infallible declaration? If yes, the cc is not what you claim.

3. Has every single church leader that is now part of your 'sacred tradition' been unified and in agreement on every matter concerning religion? If not, sacred tradition is useless and the the cc is not what you claim (based upon it's proclomation that sacred tradition is equal with sacred scripture.)

Do you begin to see why claiming to have the full truth is difficult? Similiar to above is why the mormons, baptists, Jehovah's Witnesses, methodists, lutherans, anglicans and episcopals do not have the full truth either. Simply, no one understands God in all details, in everything. To claim the 'full truth' almost sets you up to be a cult. I am not claiming anyone belongs to a cult, only that we are all wrong in some aspect. This simply is. Accept it.

What do we do then? The best we can. Pray, read, search. I do it in a baptist church because I feel they are the closest we currently have to the biblical church...and...(don't take this lightly) I feel they are the most Christ centered and bible searching church. I have come to this conclusion after searching for a church for about 2 years with my then fiancee (we got married in June). And yes, we did explore the catholic church, along with quite a few others (you would be suprised what methodists are doing these days...scary).

As to the above litmus tests; there are other tests that any church claiming the 'full truth' must pass, but I asked those because they are the most relevent to the posts which have been flying around lately.

Anyway. The simple, and pretty obvious fact is that the CC does not possess the 'full truth', no one does.

In Christ,
jason

 

A black person's statement about prior persecution would be just as, if not more accurate. I am not offended, I just saw the similarity between what some black activitists say and what Hank said.

Solution: The Church of Rome needs to repent and divorce herself from the world.

Hank,

This is not the solution at all. The solution would be for us to judge individuals on their fruits and see the unity in Christ, not who follows Apollos. What church one attends has nothing to do with salvation. It is what we individually believe that determines salvation.(See Romans 14)

[ September 15, 2002, 03:26 PM: Message edited by: Tuor ]

 

The Church of Rome needs to repent and divorce herself from the world.

Hank --

I would be interested in seeing a little bit more definition of what you mean by this statement? Exactly HOW do you wish to see the Church divorce Herself from the world?

Be waitin' for yer answer.

Cordially in Christ,

Brother Ed

 

Hellish doctrines?

I still get a newsletter from a bigot group that I used to support. They use the same language.

Well....let's see.

The following are doctrines of the universal (katholicos) Church which consists of both us Orthodox and the Latin rite:

The Trinity -- Don't believe this one? You are in deep weeds with most Christian denominations. And probably with God, although ultimately He is the final Judge of your estate. You are a Trinitarian compliments of the universal Church, which defended this doctrine at Nicea.

The Bodily Resurrection -- Would you believe there actually are "christians" who disbelieve this doctrine? Such is the result of allowing for "private interpretation". Part of the Nicene Creed. Yours compliments of the universal Church.

The Final Judgement -- Another of the insidious teachings of the Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church, one which all "orthodox" Christians subscribe to.

The Incarnation -- Again, we were here first. Your "orthodoxy" in this area is compliments of the councils of the universal Church.

The Virgin Birth -- Another doctrine stoutly defended by all true Christians, yet formulated by the universal Church for you. We were the ones who opposed the heretics, not you. You just took what you liked and discarded the rest.

How we doin' so far? Any "hellish doctrines" in there? No? Why not?

It was, in fact, the universal Church, headed by Pope St. Gregory and his predecessors who really defined all the major teachings of the natures of Christ, opposing the Monothellites, the Monophysites, the Nestorians, and a HOST of other HERETICS. Where were youse guys? Oh, silly me. I forgot....Baptistry would begin for another several hundred years. Ditto with Protestantism.

C'mon DHK, why don't you admit it? 95% of what you believe STARTED, was DEFINED and DEFENDED by the UNIVERSAL CHURCH -- the CATHOLIC Church!!!

And you are really in a corner on this one, because if you are going to borrow these doctrines and tag them as "orthodox", yet at the same time claim that the Church and Her councils were not infallible, then HOW do you know that what you have chosen to believe really is true?

Hmmmmmmmmmm.....????

Maybe the Oneness Pentecostals are correct with their interpretation of the Scriptures. They use the Scriptures consistently to "prove" their position. So did heretic bishop Arias.

Maybe the Mormons are correct. Or any one of a thousand nutball cults. How do you know, how do you PROVE they are wrong when you have no way other than YOUR interpretation of Scripture.

WE CATHOLICS on the other hand, have the PROMISE of Jesus our Lord that the office of the papacy would be PROTECTED from error!! To me, that is a lot stronger than "I think...." or "Well, I believe Scripture says..."

Your blanket statement says in effect that 2000 years of Ante-Nicene Fathers, Early Fathers, and Doctors of the Church, as well as greatly holy and pious men, were wrong. Sorry, I don't buy it!

Your claims in effect state that the apostles told the truth of God to men who almost immediately twisted and tortured the truth with deliberation and malice. In other words, they were not as noble as you are, right? C'mon, that is not only crass, it is slanderous of men who died rather than to betray Christ and His teachings!!

We have labored with you over and over and over again to show you how Biblical the teachings of Orthodoxy and Catholicism are. You refuse to listen, believing what you have been brainwashed to believe (the Catholic Church is the Whore of Revelation, yap yap yap).

I feel sorry for ya, man. You left the true Church for a distortion of the Church. You don't understand and don't agree with the teachings of the Church, therefore you pronounce them wrong and refuse to listen to any explanation.

And I do understand...you are scared for your soul and its well being. That is understandable. I went through the same doubts and torments (it ain't fun converting, believe me!!) that you harbor now. But through God's grace, I came to understand that no matter how poorly administrated, how filled with sinful priests and stupid administrative rules the Church may be, She is still the Church. Her doctrines and teachings are correct, even if Her leaders are full blown HYPOCRITES!!

Ahhhh.....what more can I say? I really actually feel sorry for you. I'll try to remember you in my prayers to our Mother.

Cordially in Christ,

Brother Ed

 

Yesterday, after attending the daily liturgy concelebrated by 11 priests and a bishop, I was walking through the halls of the Franciscan University of Steubenville when I overheard a woman in conversation with Dr. Alan Schreck.

She was in town for the Catholic Writers' Festival, which the University hosted, and she was one of the authors attending. I stood in the hallway in a nonchalant manner, leaning against the wall, as I listened to their conversation.

She used to be a "staunch Baptist" (to use her own description) who was introduced to the conversion story tape of Dr. Scott Hahn and Karl Keating's popular text, Catholicism & Fundamentalism. Eventually - after 5 years of reading and study - she and her husband (who was an ex-Catholic) came home.

I will continue to remember the phrase this sweet lady continued to reiterate to Dr. Schreck: "We have such a treasure, such a treasure."

I'll be off of the board for a bit now. My studies demand my attention.

God bless all of you,

Carson Weber

All praise be to Jesus, the Advocate, the Alpha and Omega, the First and the Last, the Great Amen. Blessing and glory be to him who is the Apostle of Our Profession, the Author and Finisher of Our Faith, the Captain of Our Salvation, the Chief Cornerstone, Emmanuel, Everlasting Father, Faithful Witness, Head of the Church, Horn of Salvation, the I Am, the Messiah, the Morning Star, the Power of the Kings of the Earth, the Savior, the Shepherd and Bishop of Souls, the Son of the Most Blessed, the Sun of Righteousness, Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Word of God, Sword of the Spirit, Word of Life, Lord of Lords and King of Kings.

[ September 15, 2002, 09:08 PM: Message edited by: Carson Weber ]

 

Did ya notice how Carson had to throw that little dig in there about some Catholic woman who used to be a staunch Baptist? Whats that prove? She was ungrounded in her faith and an easy target for all the hooplah and razzle-dazzle of the mass. She was probably a member of Rev. Joshua Villines church.

 

I don't think so, Carson said she had a husband.

 

Brother Ed asks…

The Church of Rome claims that Peter was the first Pope. OK, lets start there.

Acts 3
6 Then Peter said, Silver and gold have I none; but such as I have give I thee: In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth rise up and walk.

Let the Pope of the Church of Rome sell the mega-zillions worth of art treasures in Rome and the Vatican, settle all the law suits for the sins of her priests and give the rest to the poor and do as Jesus said to the first Apostles "come follow me".

HankD

 

I have a friend who is a pastor for Calvary Chapel. I believe what you have done is slander this denomination unless you might be so happy to provide some proof of this statement. Perhaps I will e-mail this thread to him and see if he wants to respond, or maybe you would consider retracting your false statement.

Joseph Botwinick