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Why is it called the Texus Receptus (recieved text)? Part 2

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by Askjo, Sep 9, 2004.

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  1. Askjo

    Askjo New Member

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    How did I lie? Pastor Bob, another moderator has my information from my email. Ask him about about 40% non-TR in the NKJV.
    The Judgment seat of Christ shows very clear that Jesus is God.
     
    #1 Askjo, Sep 9, 2004
  2. Pastor KevinR

    Pastor KevinR New Member

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    How did I lie? Pastor Bob, another moderator has my information from my email. Ask him about about 40% non-TR in the NKJV.
    The Judgment seat of Christ shows very clear that Jesus is God.     </font>[/QUOTE]Askjo, do you think the NKJV translators lied when they said their N.T. was translated from the Traditional Text? I don't think so. The NKJV doesn't line up 100% w/ the KJV (after all, it's an update of the KJV). The exaggerations made by Waite and others regarding the NKJV N.T. are actually word differences, rather than textual. From , "thee" to the NKJV's "you" most likely factored into Mr Waites counting....and BTW, some have made the claim that the KJV departs from the T.R. more than the NKJV, what do you say to that claim?
     
    #2 Pastor KevinR, Sep 9, 2004
  3. TC

    TC Active Member
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    How did I lie? Pastor Bob, another moderator has my information from my email. Ask him about about 40% non-TR in the NKJV. </font>[/QUOTE]Why should he have to ask another person for proof of your statement? It would be better if you posted your information yourself.
     
    #3 TC, Sep 9, 2004
  4. TC

    TC Active Member
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    #4 TC, Sep 9, 2004
  5. Askjo

    Askjo New Member

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    Hi Kevin,

    It is NOT update of the KJV, but is is a modern version.
    He is my witness. :D
    Hi TC,

    Gary R. Hudson is incorrect to say the NKJV superiority over the KJV.

    John 5:24

    KJV

    Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

    NKJV

    "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment , but has passed from death into life.

    "condemnation" and "judgment" are NOT the same words. The Christian is not condmned, but is judged. The Christian will stand at the Judgment Seat of Christ.

    How accurate is the NKJV over the KJV on the John 5:24? &lt;attack snipped&gt;

    [ September 09, 2004, 11:17 PM: Message edited by: Dr. Bob ]
     
    #5 Askjo, Sep 9, 2004
  6. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    Askjo - did you READ your "support"? It verifies 100% of what I said and refutes 100% of what you said. Hello?

    The NKJV uses the EXACT SAME GREEK TEXT as the AV1611.

    Now, I think I see what has you so befuddled. The ENGLISH words vary 40% of the time. But the ENGLISH words were choices of the AV1611 translators and now the NKJV have made other choices.

    But the WORDS OF GOD, inspired, in the Greek, are 100% identical.

    I withdraw my statement that you are blatantly lying. You are simply confusing the AV1611 as the "original". What you stated was ABSOLUTELY FALSE AND ERRONEOUS, but I don't think you were lying. Just confused.

    The discussion is on the GREEK MANUSCRIPTS underlying the two . . and they are identical!
     
    #6 Dr. Bob, Sep 9, 2004
  7. Marcia

    Marcia Active Member

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    As far as "judgment" versus "condemnation," they are variations of the same word, which can mean both according to this, which is from a King James commentary:

    Maybe a Greek scholar on the BB could comment?

    The Translator's notes for my NKJV state clearly that the text they use is the TR. The NKJV is not an MV. It's easy to tell it isn't because of how it differs from MVs in the same areas that the KJV differs from the MVs. It just has more modern English terms.
     
    #7 Marcia, Sep 9, 2004
  8. Bro Tony

    Bro Tony New Member

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    The truthfulness of both these statements are without question. The problem Dr Bob & Marcia is the KJVOist cannot say this or it would destroy their man-made myth.

    Bro Tony
     
    #8 Bro Tony, Sep 10, 2004
  9. mioque

    mioque New Member

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    Ahum..
    It has already been established that the AV1611 (you know the KJV) was not translated from the Textus Receptus.
    The KJV after all was published in 1611 and the term TR originates in 1633. The Dutch AV of 1637 seems to be the only true TR translation out there.

    The KJV was translated from the Majority Text edition published in 1550 by the Frenchman Estienne who called himself (latinized names being all the rage in Europe at the time) Stephanus.

    The term TR is ofcourse mostly a marketing blurb. But there are apparently 287 different readings (corrections made by Erasmus to repair mistakes in earlier editions) between the French MT used for the English AV and the true TR used for the Dutch AV.

    Yes I'm enjoying myself immensely here.
     
    #9 mioque, Sep 10, 2004
  10. AVL1984

    AVL1984 <img src=../ubb/avl1984.jpg>

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    The truthfulness of both these statements are without question. The problem Dr Bob & Marcia is the KJVOist cannot say this or it would destroy their man-made myth.

    Bro Tony     </font>[/QUOTE]You're right, Bro Tony. Deprogramming :eek: is a hard thing to endure. Been there, done that!

    AVL1984
     
    #10 AVL1984, Sep 10, 2004
  11. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    Mioque - does anyone (besides some looney American missionaries) in your country care a bit about the translation?

    I'm enjoying your "gloating". You HAVE a Bible from the TR - like that is some magical blend of Greek documents somehow better than mine - and we don't. [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Now if only it was in English, it would be perfect! :rolleyes:
     
    #11 Dr. Bob, Sep 10, 2004
  12. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    I tried to explain this to askjo as well.

    HankD
     
    #12 HankD, Sep 10, 2004
  13. Scott J

    Scott J Active Member
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    #13 Scott J, Sep 10, 2004
  14. mioque

    mioque New Member

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    Dr. Bob
    "does anyone (besides some looney American missionaries) in your country care a bit about the translation?"
    ""
    There is a Dutch AV only movement, centered around a number of extremist Calvinist churches (none of them baptist).
    Compared to the US branch of the 1 version only movement they are not at all belligerent about it. The rest of the country appreciates that translation as a historical landmark, but rarely uses it anymore.
    In fact denominational differences are considered so unimportant in the Netherlands when it comes to Bibleversions that the new big translation that will come out late Oktober is a joined effort by Jews, Roman Catholics and mainline Protestants.

    "I'm enjoying your "gloating"."
    "
    It feels great when you get to be a snobbish piece of Eurotrash. :D

    " You HAVE a Bible from the TR - like that is some magical blend of Greek documents somehow better than mine - and we don't"
    ""
    An enviable position isn't it....
    It would be even greater if I believed for one second in the TR hype as the only sound version of the Greek NT.
     
    #14 mioque, Sep 10, 2004
  15. Askjo

    Askjo New Member

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    I have some commentaries concerning John 5:24 between condemnation and judgment. They defined these words as likewise as what you said here. However there is a biggest misunderstanding on what these words actually mean.
    They used the NU texts as the references. If the NKJV is not MV, therefore it MUST reject NU references. I see NKJV using NU references then it obviously is a MV.
     
    #15 Askjo, Sep 10, 2004
  16. Bro Tony

    Bro Tony New Member

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    Askjo,

    It has been shown and proven that the NKJV used the same text as was used in the KJV. You can keep saying they did not but that does not make it so. Be careful in your zeal to defend your KJVO stand to speak the truth about other versions.

    Bro Tony
     
    #16 Bro Tony, Sep 10, 2004
  17. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    Askjo - I expect better of you. You keep making the same false allegation.

    Bite the bullet and say, "Oops, I was thinking of the changes in ENGLISH, not in the original Greek text. Mea Culpa."

    Then I will close the thread and this will disappear. I commend your desire to support tje AV, but not rehashing the same error. Think I'll change my pix . .

    [​IMG]
     
    #17 Dr. Bob, Sep 10, 2004
  18. Bro Tony

    Bro Tony New Member

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    Don't do it Dr Bob!!!! He can't compare nor is he as dapper a dresser as you. I know I would miss the bow tie.

    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Bro Tony
     
    #18 Bro Tony, Sep 10, 2004
  19. AVL1984

    AVL1984 <img src=../ubb/avl1984.jpg>

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    Yep, I've sort of gotten used to the bow tie myself! LOL ;)

    AVL1984
     
    #19 AVL1984, Sep 10, 2004
  20. Greeker

    Greeker New Member

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    Dear Askjo:
    The Greek Word "krisis" means an opinion given concerning anything, concerning justice and injusticeand in some context damnatory judgement or condemnation. So the word judgement as used in John 5:24 in the NKJV means the same as condemnation. So where is the problem. It seems you are trying to invent one.

    Dear TC
    That is an excellent article on the NJKV by Hudson. KJVO people ignore the facts many times.

    God Bless
    John :confused:
     
    #20 Greeker, Sep 10, 2004
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