Why so many unfounded attacks on Calvinism?

I do not see it as fear. However, if you read the responses of many Calvinists on this BB and others you see they have very bad attitudes toward anyone who does not agree with them. Perhaps some of what you are talking about is the reaction of others toward these bad attitudes.

I talked to a Calvinist scholar who was visiting here from England. We discussed Calvin and Calvinism ... his concluding remark is that Calvin would reject much of what modern "Calvinists" say he taught. I cannot elaborate on this as I am not a scholar in this area.

 

We base our faith on Christ alone for our salvation and sanctification.

Everyone (and that includes you)has a particular theology.

You aren't getting Calvinists confused with hyper-Calvinists are you?

Are you saying that you are in the dead-center between Arminianism and Calvinism?There is no such middleground.That's a nonsensical position to take.

Who preaches systematic theology?One can preach systematically through books of the Bible -- but preaching systematic theology?You'd have to document that one for us.

There are plenty of preachers who claim to preach from the Bible yet are mixed-up theologically.

 

What causes some to believe?That's right,the Lord.The Lord gives faith and repentance.

If God wants all people to be saved why has He hidden the law and Gospel from so many for thousands of years?

In 1 Tim.2:4 the "all" refers to the elect from all over the world --from among every tribe,nation and language.

I'm not getting any pine splinters.As a Calvinist I follow the Word of God.And it is patently absurd to say that Calvinists "follow the crowd in what they believe."We are a distinct minority.Open your eyes.

There you go again.The elect are not multiple groups of people.All of the elect were chosen before the foundation of the world --that's when their names alone were written in the Lamb's Book of Life.The Bible knows do such irrationality that you have put forth.The Word of God does not have separate categories of His people --those chosen before earth's creation and others chosen afterwards.

Jesus was lifted up at Pentecost?I can't follow your train of thought here.

So John 6:37 and 65 no longer apply?Are you a hyper-dispensationalist?

All that the Father gives to Jesus will come to Him.No one can come to Jesus unless it has been granted him from the Father.

 

My dear friend Rippon:

I admire your grit, and I truly wish I had your patience, but we are all of us fallen creatures.

Some will adhere to the Doctrine of Grace, some will not, and neither side will convert unless the Spirit of God moves.

As far as we of the Doctrine of Grace are concerned, we think we understand what we believe and based on that conviction we make our stand, and the same goes for those on the other side of the fence, and yet, in heaven, both sides might find out that what both tenaciously affirmed and stood for here on earth may have so many loopholes in it when the Lord Himself opens up the Scriptures for them as He did the two on the way to Emmaus.

Suffice to say that the gospel be preached to those to whom it is intended for. To the Doctrine of Grace adherents the intended hearers are the elect, to those on the other side of the fence, the intended hearers are all mankind, either way, as Paul says, Christ is preached and God is glorified.

Man will believe what he wants to believe, and God saved those whom He intended to save in and through Christ, and will gospelly save those whom He intends to gospelly save here in time.

God bless you, brother.

 

Did Neo-Pentecostalism arrive on the scene in the SBC prior to the abandoment of the doctorine of complete soverneighty. (Calvinism) or was it the reverse.

 

Doctrine

I will never be a doctrine of grace, but believe in grace through faith as the scripture teaches. I follow no man made ideas, but scripture.

I'm sorry the scripture teaches that God included them with those chosen before the foundation of the world when they heard the Gospel of thier salvation having believed.

All authority has been given to Jesus and after Jesus is lifted up He will draw all men to Himself. Those scripture did aply, but everthing has been given to Jesus, now all men are drawn to Jesus. To be given the paths to believe in Jesus and be saved or not and be condemned.

We cannot forget all the ather scripture with all men being drawn to Jesus without us going out from Romans 10.

We have good news my brother, not the bad news that some can't come.

God wants all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth. If some doesn't come it isn't because of God not wanted them to be saved.

We have so much to learn, but we can't living in a man made box.

God gives faith to all men througfh His word to repent and believe, but you can walk away from it, not because of God not wanting you to come, because God wants all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth.

 

Great post pinoy. I've missed seeing your posts around lately. Regardless of what side of the fence you're on you rarely see humility displayed in argument. Sadly it has become more of a fight to pat one's self on the back, because they are right and the other is wrong.

While I am a firm believer in the Doctrines of Grace I tend to agree with TCGreek on how to approach the subject from the pulpit. I believe an exposition of the scriptures naturally lends itself to the Doctrines of Grace, but calling it Calvinism from the pulpit is going a little far. I just call it biblical.

And to the part of your quote that I bolded.... AMEN!

 

You are right. While I have not done a study or seen one to determine it. I tend to think that we could divide particular theologies into groups and parallel them with personalities and temperaments and I think we would find a nice neat group in each camp made up up of a very homogeneous group of those who think very much alike.

Not in particular. I know the hypers cause a lot of destruction but anyone who stands in the pulpit or teach any Bible study and touts calvinism is wrong. When I look at how little time I have to impact the lives of others I want to make every minute count. I am only able to find two things that are eternal: the souls of people and God's word. Anything else is a waste of time in comparison.

I am not. If you read your Bible you will finds that Jesus never fit into any neat camp and was fired at from both sides. He directed them back to scripture. For example when Jesus was asked about divorce, standing in the crowd would have been the liberals and conservatives and everything in between. His answer told them what God wanted from the beginning. He did not side with any camp except scripture and what God wanted.

It would be much like the idea of abortion and the arguments for and against a particular vote for president a few months ago. The real issue is not abortion but what God wanted from the beginning.

If one preached the doctrine of God or the doctrine of the Holy Spirit that would be preaching a systematic theology.

So often today, what is being preached in churches is picking a topic and trying to support it by cherry picking verses from the Bible.

I absolutely agree with you. The unfortunate thing is that so many of the denominational leaders of the denomination they are with are in the same boat. Too many churches expect their pastors to befriend them and be there for them at every beckon call, instead of studying and feeding the congregation and training them so they can do ministry.

Years ago when I started as pastor of a particular church I quickly realized that the pastor before me had put people in places of major leadership who were not mature enough to be there and had a very poor theological foundation. He made a lady who had been a Christian less than one year as the youth leader. He had deacons who told me that they seldom read their Bible. There was an adult Sunday School teacher who taught the adults who was also listening to the tapes of a false teacher and would teach what he taught. Despite the bad situation I began to meet with several new people who wanted to grow. When I left most of them left and are now serving in other churches. One of them leads the music and trains people to make disciples.

 

I agree. The way you tell if a stick is crooked is to lay a straight one next to it.

 

...and I thought you weren't a calvinist.

This shows that calvinists don't understand the non side as well.

 

Who has said they (we) fear calvinism?

I have seen plenty a thread started by calvinists atacking the non position as well in my 4 years here. This thread in itself could be considered an attack on non calvinists' lack of understanding the position, which is far from the truth, and falsely accusing non cal's of "fear" and "hate".

 

drfuss: Why so many unfounded attacks on Calvinism??

One reason could be a reaction to the impplied attacks by Calvinists on Non-Calvinists.

For instance, Calvinists call Calvinism The Doctrines of Grace. All Christians believe in God's Grace. But this name implies that only Calvinists believe in God's Grace.

Suppose the Non-Calvinists called their beliefs: The Doctrines of Christianity, or The doctrines of Scriptures, or The Doctrines of Christ? How would the Calvinists react? Apparently, Non-Calvinists are much more considerate (less rude) of other Christians than are Calvinists.

The same applies for Calvinists claiming they believe God is more sovereign that what Non-Calvinists believe. All Christians believe God is completely sovereign and acts in a completely sovereign manner.

Yes I know, Calvinists have claimed the Doctrines of Grace and sovereignity of God for many years. I can think of two possible reasons:

1. Calvinists have traditionally wanted to separate themselves from Non-Calvinists and not work with them, so they misrepresented what Non-Calvinists believe.

2. Because Calvinism is a weak doctrine, Calvinists have found it necessary to imply a misrepresentation of what others believe in order to defend and promote Calvinism.

 

I don't "hate" calvinism, no, I just don't like the spreading of an ideal that tells sinners some cannot ever be saved due to limited atonement.

Truly NOTHING is limited in God's Atonement for sin or for any number of sinners.

Although God never changes, yet God has changed his actions due to repentence. Ninevah is the best example of God changing his actions due to their repentence, but not their s alone, it also took Jonah's repentence.

The precept taught there is that if anyone would repent they too can be saved, thus the need for preaching on repentence of the godly sort to cause sinners to see that light of the Glorious Gospel and turn to Jesus for salvation!

It is true that God knows who will be saved and who will not, yet anytime a sinner turns from his sin to the Lord for salvation he too can be saved. In fact, if he is sincere in his approach to the Lord he IS saved right then!

Is there a total number of souls that wil make up the Bride of Christ? Certainly, but that number seems to not be established by amount but only how many will come to Christ in the alotted time.

The words, "If they will repent" sets a condition for souls in who can be saved, not a predestined number.

The real evidence of the ideal is that God chose some that never could repent and be saved. That very ideal is a direct attack on the Holy Ghost's ability to bring a sinner to repentence.

Many have come to a conclusion they could never be "elect" due to this teaching of election before salvation as to exclude some. They simply were led to think they were of that number of the predestined to be lost. I have met some who are determined they are forever lost and had no chance.:tear: Yet they still do!

Simply quit listening to all the idealists and turn and trust the Lord!:godisgood:

 

I don't see any change here. God has always intended to save repentant sinners, and condemn rebellious ones. God intended to save sinners in Nineveh and took all the steps necessary to accomplish it, including getting Jonah's attention.

Exactly. God intends to save sinners through the foolishness of preaching. But it is the Holy Spirit who causes sinners to see the light. It explains why some respond to the gospel and others don't.

I really don't think you meant to say that God knows who will be saved, yet there'll be some who are saved that he didn't know about. Nor do I think you really meant to say that God knows who will not be saved, but one of them got saved anyway.

I don't think you really intend to say that God doesn't know how many that will be. However you arrive at the total, the number is fixed. What God knows today, he has always known.

This is confusing. Calvinists don't attack the HS's ability to bring a sinner to repentance. They believe a sinner's salvation is totally dependent on it.

 

Just imagine telling the people listening, "There are some of you who will never go to heaven because God has condemned some of you to hell."