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Why the teacher IS the authority in a class
- Thread starter Mr.M
- Start date
excellent words, MK.
If we approached our Sunday School with Mr. M's game plan, I think one of our problems would be solved.
RIght now...we need to start some new SS classes, but we're completely out of room to do so.
With his approach, I think we'd suddenly have plenty of room.
If we approached our Sunday School with Mr. M's game plan, I think one of our problems would be solved.
RIght now...we need to start some new SS classes, but we're completely out of room to do so.
With his approach, I think we'd suddenly have plenty of room.
menageriekeeper
Active Member
Congrats, Dan!
Nope, I don't think it is confrontational at all, in fact it helps those easily offended to read the first post and move on so they won't be offended. I find it rather gracious. As you put it "why folks seem to be having problems ", my suggestion is you worry about YOUR thoughts and let other represent themselves and worry about themselves. As far as offering something for those more seasoned...I see no relevance to someone's longevity in making such an offer. There are those people seasoned and those who are not. How long someone belongs to a particular discussion group has nothing to do with whether they are seasoned or not for debate. Okay, enough of the personal focus for which apparently you could not avoid the temptation...and on to the topic...I hope.menageriekeeper said:
Where did I say I want anyone to sit down and shut up...I didn't and you cannot quote me saying that. That is on the border of a false accusation and of course unmerited. And should you respect such a teacher if they said that? That is your decision, not mine. It is YOUR job to determine to whom you can submit as your teacher.menageriekeeper said:
Yes here is what I said: The students should arrive respectful of his academic authority and his hierarchical authority. Are you suggesting otherwise? I answered the issue of hierarchical authority to someone else, obviously you didn't bother reading that or you wouldn't have asked. It is the inherent organization authority the teacher has for making certain determinations regarding the class, such as beginning and ending times. But let me guess, you are suggesting the STUDENTS tell the teacher when to begin and end...right? :laugh: If a teacher is a novice certainly they should not be handling the Word of God in some formal capacity. Their ignorance is more too dangerous for God's sheep to be fed ill-prepared food. As for academic authority...I am a bit surprised this is unclear to you. I suppose you would like someone for whom you have no academic respect, right? You get my point then.menageriekeeper said:
Well at least you asked a question but have failed to point out where ANYTHING I have said conflicts with the doctrine of the Priesthood of the believer. The teacher's authority begins and ends in the class. That in no way interferes with the Priesthood of the believer. If so tell me how. I have made it clear, abundantly clear, that not once have I stated that the teacher "cannot be wrong". That isn't the point of authority and the issue at hand. Show me where I have stated this, you can't. You have misrepresented what I have said. I stated they should teach with authority and one with mastery of their subject. Show me where this implies infallibility....you can't, again, you are wrong and have erred based on an assumption and reading into what I have said instead of taking it at face value.menageriekeeper said:
Mr.M said:
we don't "suspend" Priesthood of the believer during class time.
Authority & mastery on the part of a teacher is subservient to the fact that God does not need a priest to speak to each of us. And a student in a SS class has every right to say, respectfully, to the teacher..."that's not how I believe it is interpreted." It should be done in love, and there is such a thing as people who are just disruptive. But Priesthood of the Believer allows for this.
blah blah blah....
I think the biggest difference here Mr. M is that your structure is more of a formal classroom setting, with lectures, modeled after our fine secular institutions.
While my ideas are much less formal, relationally driven, with the purpose of discovering together, using the Bible as a guide, and a leader to facilitate the group.
Which should be used in a church? Is the church suppose to be an academic institution? I think not, we've thrown information and spewed it back out for years now. We should be the light of the world here in America if that worked! Again, you should really read "The Dirt on Learning". You'd like it.
I think the biggest difference here Mr. M is that your structure is more of a formal classroom setting, with lectures, modeled after our fine secular institutions.
While my ideas are much less formal, relationally driven, with the purpose of discovering together, using the Bible as a guide, and a leader to facilitate the group.
Which should be used in a church? Is the church suppose to be an academic institution? I think not, we've thrown information and spewed it back out for years now. We should be the light of the world here in America if that worked! Again, you should really read "The Dirt on Learning". You'd like it.
mcdirector
Active Member
dan e. said:
Yee haw!
It just feels good to say that!
congrats brother Dan!
mcdirector
Active Member
Well, even in a formal classroom setting, there has to be some give and take to know when the students are and are not understanding the material.
Again, where did I claim the Priesthood of the believer is suspended during class? I didn't so your implication is unmerited and reckless. Let's continue...The authority and mastery of the teacher is both biblically inherent and biblically expected. But what I find odd is you injecting a "priest". Who said anything about a priest talking for God? You did, I didn't, again unmerited and unwarranted assumptions.rbell said:
By the way, a student might think he has the right to say "that's not the way I believe it is interpreted" but frankly it is nothing but disrespectful. But let's say such an arrogant person makes such a claim, a good teacher will respond, "fine, but you're not the teacher, I am"...in love of course. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
No one has disputed that. Of course it is the STUDENTS job to make it known to the instructor where they are unclear...the instructor is not a mind reader nor should be expected to be. A good teacher might get hints and clues now and then but nevertheless, it is still the student's responsibility to make it known where they are unclear.mcdirector said:
Mr.M said:
Unmerited? Reckless? tee hee hee...
Are you a Sunday School teacher?
If you are....hoo boy, you must have some patient students.
I think I understand why you get into arguments-turned-ugly on almost all your threads here. Anyone who disagrees with you...you view disagreement with you as disrespectful...and you view the one who disagrees as arrogant.
Sad.
Ah yes, all this complaining about Mr.M being condescending, arrogant and so on and what do I get, a most disrespectful introduction:dan e. said:
I won't hold my breath for those who find condescending attitudes offensive to deal with this brother though. :laugh: But to boot he insults and then is delusional enough to think that is okay to go along side of his recommendation of book reading. :laugh: You couldn't find scripts for movies this funny.dan e. said:
But on to the body of the comments. A church should instruct, it should teach.
Be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind. And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.
You want to be transformed...God gave you teachers...God set them there...got it?
And the things that thou hast heard of me among many witnesses, the same commit thou to faithful men, who shall be able to teach others also.
So one must be taught before they can teach OTHERS...hmmmm. But no...how dare another teach them with authority to they can teach others..right? I can just see it now, "Brother Timothy, I think you are wrong and it is interpreted this way". :laugh:
For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.
Ah yes, the clear indication in Scripture that those in need of milk and not able to handle strong meat are NOT qualified to be teachers but need TAUGHT.
I found something interesting on Wiki...
Mr.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mr.
Jump to: navigation, search
Mr or Mr. is an English honorific used for a man too old to be addressed as Master, under the rank of knighthood, and, supposedly though not really in practice, above some undefined level of social status (see below). In Britain, though not in the United States, the title also excludes those who have the title Dr. It is an abbreviation of Mister, though it is almost never spelt out in normal usage. The plural of Mr is Messrs (IPA pronunciation: ['mesə(r)z]), an abbreviation for the French messieurs.
...
Mister is an alteration of Master; the equivalent female titles, Mrs, Miss, and Ms, are variants of Mistress. After the development of the word Mister for adult males, the title Master was retained and used for boys and young men.
The above information bolded, is what I just learned.
All this talk of "master" and then MR. M started this thread, got me to thinking...
Does this mean we are to call all Sunday School teachers, MR.... or MRS...? Since they are Masters of the Bible knowledge.
Mr.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mr.
Jump to: navigation, search
Mr or Mr. is an English honorific used for a man too old to be addressed as Master, under the rank of knighthood, and, supposedly though not really in practice, above some undefined level of social status (see below). In Britain, though not in the United States, the title also excludes those who have the title Dr. It is an abbreviation of Mister, though it is almost never spelt out in normal usage. The plural of Mr is Messrs (IPA pronunciation: ['mesə(r)z]), an abbreviation for the French messieurs.
...
Mister is an alteration of Master; the equivalent female titles, Mrs, Miss, and Ms, are variants of Mistress. After the development of the word Mister for adult males, the title Master was retained and used for boys and young men.
The above information bolded, is what I just learned.
All this talk of "master" and then MR. M started this thread, got me to thinking...
Does this mean we are to call all Sunday School teachers, MR.... or MRS...? Since they are Masters of the Bible knowledge.