Why Would a Pastor Condone Freemasonry

Dear friends,
Can you please tell me why, if I send a message, it is not posted? Am I doing something wrong?
I sent something previously, and more recently, wrote a short piece in the Gifts of the Spirit debate.
I am chronically ill and disabled and am confined much to home, and have found the debates so very interesting. But please tell me if I am writing incorrectly. Thank you. Christian love from Rose

 

Jacob, Mohammed may have said that he was believing in the God of Abraham, but that is just not true. He said that because before he was kicked out of Mecca, he was trying to be peaceable with the Jews and Christians. After he got kicked out, his ideas changed and he preached that Jews and Christians (the 'infidels') should be killed. This is in the Koran.

Even though Muslims today say they believe in the same God as the Jews and Christians, this is just not true. When you look at their god, it is not the God of the Bible. Just because they say it, it doesn't make it true.

Also, you keep saying that Masonic rituals refer to YHWH, but I do not see this in the Masonic materials I have. I am interested to see your answer O.F.F.'s last post.

 

Ok Mike

here you go

Almighty and Eternal Jehovah! Great Light of Life! in whom we live, and move, and have our being! Bless the brethren here assembled! Give them one mind, and influence each one of them by the same zeal! Make them one in name and heart. May the Master be firm, prudent, and discreet in discharge of his duties, and as the glorious Sun gives light to the day, may he be enable to enlighten the Lodge, and conduct all things aright! May the Wardens be pillars of Strength record what eternal truth shall approve! May the Deacons be constant as the hours, and the Tiler be as the eye of a kind Providence which watches unseen over all the works of creation; and may every brother practice out of the Lodge the duties that are inculcated in it. So shall we be built up a spiritual Lodge never to be shaken by storms of adversity; but' cleaving to thy great name, O Eternal Jehovah! may we be united to thee in love and freedom of soul forever; and to thy most Holy name be praise, now, henceforth and forever. Amen

Response. So mote it be.




Also to which god was the Temple of Solomon built.

Also God in the Threefold aspect of the Trinity

What God created the world in 6 days and on the seveth reseted.

Also what god goes by the name Jehovah

 

Jehovah is also the name of the god worshiped by Jehovah Witnesses (which is not the God of the Bible because their God is not a Trinity). In fact, the word Jehovah is not in the Bible - it was a misunderstood translation of YHWH. That is one reason I do not use the term "Jehovah."

Jacob, you did not give the source for this. When I posted things earlier, I was told very clearly to give the sources, so I did. Is this from the TN lodge books? Please give source.

Where is God in this passage referred to as the Trinitarian God?

As we already discussed earlier, Masons talk about God but not Jesus as the only Savior, then say that's because they are not a religion, but when told that they accept the god of all religions, they try to say or show they have the Christian God. Which is it?

Also, I note here it says "spiritual lodge," but Masons are always saying Freemasonry is not a religion. It also says to Jehovah, "may we be united to thee in love and freedom of soul forever" but you cannot know God (assuming this Jehovah is the Biblical God which I'm not convinced it is) without Christ. This is also clearly a very religious statement.

This passage here would not be read in a Muslim or Buddhist lodge, I'm sure. But you consider those Masons your brothers, am I right?

 

By way of intoduction, I will first state that I am a former Master Mason of some ten years, convicted and called out from Freemasonry by the Holy Spirit.
By my profile, you can see that I am from Tennessee. This known, I would like to ask for some clarification toward the following from Mr. Webber:

As a former Tennessee Mason, I know of no such edict, ruling, or statement issued by The Grand Lodge of Free and Accepted Masons of The State of Tennessee that addresses any such matters pertaining to individual religions.


Mr. Webber, please provide some evidence to support this claim, for as it stands I say it is false.

Respectfully,
W.D. Rice

 

Hello, Mike.
Please, my brother, I do share your passion, but remember... Truth In Love, and Extend Full Grace.

As one easily caught up myself, let us all be cautioned toward the Gentleness of The Master.
Challenge pointedly, stand ground firmly, but let us all remain in the restraint of love.

In Christ,
W.D.Rice

 

W.D.
I can not remeber if you said you went thru the chairs or not. But never the less as I have the Tennessee Masonic Code book that is were it has the retriction # 4.1.303 which states what is in the above post.

As to Marcia's ? My sources is the Masonic Text Book of Tennessee, The Tennessee Craftsmen and the Gary Leazer's book Funimentlism and Freemasonry and others.

 

A Brief Examination of Some Evidence Presented:

Almighty and Eternal Jehovah! Great Light of Life! in whom we live, and move, and have our being! Bless the brethren here assembled! Give them one mind, and influence each one of them by the same zeal! Make them one in name and heart.

May the Master (not God?) be firm, prudent, and discreet in discharge of his duties, and as the glorious Sun gives light to the day, may he be enable to enlighten the Lodge , and conduct all things aright!
(Shouldn't God, not a man, enlighten the Lodge?)

May the Wardens be pillars of Strength record what eternal truth shall approve!

May the Deacons be constant as the hours,

and the Tiler be as the eye of a kind Providence which watches unseen over all the works of creation;

(This is all placing men in positions that are given descriptive roles and attributes reserved only for God!)

and may every brother practice out of the Lodge the duties that are inculcated in it. So shall we be built up a spiritual Lodge never to be shaken by storms of adversity; but' cleaving to thy great name, O Eternal Jehovah! may we be united to thee in love and freedom of soul forever; and to thy most Holy name be praise, now, henceforth and forever. Amen [/QUOTE]

Something to think about?

In Christ,
W.D.

 

One Baptist minister I know (I won't name names or location!) was opposed to the Freemasons for the reasons mentioned. However, he had quite a sense of humor.

Let's just say.... you can buy Mason rings in pawn shops... and when someone thinks you have a certain "rank" they treat you differently.... but are not so pleased when you take the ring off, plunk it on their desk and tell them you bought it at a pawn shop

-Michael

 

(May the Master (not God?) be firm, prudent, and discreet in discharge of his duties, and as the glorious Sun gives light to the day, may he be enable to enlighten the Lodge , and conduct all things aright! )
(Shouldn't God, not a man, enlighten the Lodge?)

God has given us leaders to help instruct and lead us in our daily lives. Presidents, Teaches, Ministers and Fathers. I really do not see the problem in praying to God for them to be good leaders.

The Master is the head of the Lodge to pray for him to be a good leader is not bad.

(May the Wardens be pillars of Strength record what eternal truth shall approve!

May the Deacons be constant as the hours,

and the Tiler be as the eye of a kind Providence which watches unseen over all the works of creation

The Warderns remember the duty of the Warderns to supervise the members of the Lodge. Junior Warden is to at as the Lodge Lawyer. So to keep a record God would aprove means to be Honest and due your Duty.

The Deacons again remember there duties if they are not constant than communication in the Lodge breaks down.

The Tyler is the one who guards the Lodge and protects those inside from the dangers outside so to pray he has a good visual is an important thing.

 

(but are not so pleased when you take the ring off, plunk it on their desk and tell them you bought it at a pawn shop)

ZeroTX
There is an awful lot of mikes here. But never they less I am not sure why they are not pleased I was told to goto a Pawn Shop to find a ring. If it is such an unpleasing thing than why recomend it.

 

So what do we do when we go to church? Fire the preacher for bringing enlightenment? How about a school teacher, is not their job to bring enlightenmet to people. Maybe we could go to church, but not have a preacher?

How can we have deacons in the church if these roles are only for God? Then any human work done in the church is in place of God by your reasoning.

Are not men given descriptive roles in churches and other organisations? Are we not instructed to pray for secular leadership of governments in this manner?

 

Enlightenment also means to instruct so it pretains to the Teaches and other leaders job to instruct us on our jobs and lives.

 

So Mike are you condeming the prayer for praying for the leaders to do a good job.

(So shall we be built up a spiritual Lodge never to be shaken by storms of adversity; but' cleaving to thy great name, O Eternal Jehovah! may we be united to thee in love and freedom of soul forever; and to thy most Holy name be praise, now, henceforth and forever. Amen)

I noticed you left out the part about holding to God's name and the Name of that God Jehovah. You asked for evidence I give you proof and when you requote it you leave it out. Is because it states that the Lodge is praying to Jehovah and you denied it and yet here it is.

To be united to Jehovah in Love and Freedom forever. How can this be a bad thing. You keep leaving these parts out.

So Mike which god goes by the name Jehovah also in the Threefold aspect of the Trinity and states that Faith in the Merits of the Lion of the Tribe of Judah (Rev 5:5) is how you get to Heaven.

 

Mr. Webber,
Concerning the following, I will ask some every direct questions, and make some very direct points.
I will seem somewhat long-winded, but I will address the entire message, not merely picking and choosing.

Very direct responses would be appreciated.

First, from what Ritual is this prayer? And from what edition?
It is not from current Tennessee Masonic works, nor from any from the past few decades, that I can find.

Next, let's examine this prayer and see what it actually says:


Almighty and Eternal Jehovah!

There is nothing wrong with this as it stands, but will it really apply to Masons as a whole? Let's look at the further statements to see the answer.


Great Light of Life! in whom we live, and move, and have our being! Bless the brethren here assembled!

Since "the brethren here assembled" may be of Buddhist, Zoroastrian, Pantheist, or even Pagan religions, this can not be speaking of "brothers" in Jehovah, since these religions reject Jehovah. By this, we then find that the opening statement becomes disqualified as it cannot apply to all Masons, nor to all men.


Give them one mind, and influence each one of them by the same zeal! Make them one in name and heart.

From what we know of Masonry's acceptance of the above false religions, the question must be asked, "Of what "one mind" are these men called to be "one in name and heart", since we now know that it is not Jehovah, and even moreso that it is surely not Jesus Christ?"

Christians understand the "one mind" that calls us to be "one in name and heart" with Jesus, but these false religions that Masonry welcomes makes Masonry's "one mind" that calls Masons "one in name and heart" very much anti-Christian.

How can Christians be of "one mind" with false religions?
How can Christians be "one in name and heart" with false religions?
God Himself answers these questions in His Holy Word!


May the Master be firm, prudent, and discreet in discharge of his duties, and as the glorious Sun gives light to the day, may he be enable to enlighten the Lodge, and conduct all things aright!

This is not as you replied, but calls for the 'Master' to enlighten the Lodge.

How can a Christian be enlightened by anything but God's Word? No man is called to enlighten another in such as this!


May the Wardens be pillars of Strength record what eternal truth shall approve!

Almighty God is the only pillar of strength! Again what belongs to God is accorded to man in false righteousness and pomposity.


May the Deacons be constant as the hours,

Only God is "constant as the hours", which He Himself ordains! Again a "puffing up" of man before a Holy God.


and the Tiler be as the eye of a kind Providence which watches unseen over all the works of creation;

A man "be as the eye of kind Providence"?
A man be as He that "watches unseen over all the works of creation"?



and may every brother practice out of the Lodge the duties that are inculcated in it.

These duties are to whom?
To such a "god" that welcomes false religions about his altar?
These duties can never be said to be to Jehovah God, because the Buddhist, Zoroastrian, Pantheist, and Pagan which do not serve Him are called to these duties!

Truth is truth, and can not be ignored here. To apply such a prayer in the name of Jehovah God on behalf of men that reject Him in worship and practice is blasphemy of that Holy and Perfect Name!


So shall we be built up a spiritual Lodge never to be shaken by storms of adversity; but' cleaving to thy great name, O Eternal Jehovah!

What Buddhist can make such a prayer to Jehovah? What Pagan and Pantheist can cleave to this Name? Nay, NOT ONE!
A vain, hollow, and self-righteous prayer that brings shame to the very Holy Name upon Whom it dares to call!


may we be united to thee in love and freedom of soul forever; and to thy most Holy name be praise, now, henceforth and forever.

How can the ungodly be united in His Holy name?
How can Christians utter such words to unite them to ungodly religions that reject the very God Whose Name this prayer invokes?
Again, the answer He has already given in His Holy Word , and it is completely disagreeable with all of the above.


As to the rest:
1. The Temple presented in Freemasonry is not, nor ever will be The Temple of God, prepared by David and built by Solomon. The story in the Ritual is completely false.

2. There is no Trinity presented within Freemasonry. If you say it is, then present the evidence. I can present the evidence to the contrary.

3. Only One God created all, but you will not find Him in Masonry.

4. Just because someone makes up a righteous-sounding prayer and calls the name Jehovah, does not mean they have the right God. Like a letter with the right name, but the wrong address, such a prayer is vain and returns empty and hollow.

In Christ,
W.D. Rice

 

“He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he will not go out from it anymore; and I will write on him the name of My God, and the name of the city of My God, the new Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God, and My new name.” (Rev. 3:12)

Your trumpet needs tuning.

TW

 

Mike
First I said Freemasonry the Blue Lodge is not I repeat is not a Christian Frat. You asked for evidence for YHWH being the God of the Ritual I presented it. I am not trying to make Freemasonry a Christian Frat. The Knights Templar is a Christian Frat of Freemasonry from which comes the Three degrees of the Blue Lodge. So if the Blue Lodge gets it degrees from a Christian Frat than that only supports the claim that YHWH is the God in the Ritual.

I am not trying to say that Jehovah in the Threefold aspect is the God of Hindu's or anyother religion. In a sence HE is as all will answer to Him wether they acept Him or not. No where does Freemasonry ask that you believe in Jehovah. It ask that you believe in a Supreme Being in whom you are accountable to.


WD

If you had done research you would have looked at the beginnings of Freeasonry and you would have found Jehovah there as I stated before Jews wanted to join but they could not say the name Jehovah so it was changed to God than to Great Architect from John Calvin. If you have the ablity look for the Black Masonic Text Book.

(By this, we then find that the opening statement becomes disqualified as it cannot apply to all Masons, nor to all men)

As I said before Freemasonry seemed to be a Christian only group in some countrys it still is. So at that time Jehovah is correct and only intiteld to Christians.

Enlighten means to instruct or teach.

Wardens are to keep a True record what is wrong with keeping a true record.


(May the Deacons be constant as the hours,)
You are reading way to much into this. When a solder is carying messages he is to be ready at all times the same applys to the deacons.

The Tyler
To Pray that the Tyler can watch and guard the Lodge with the best of His ablity is a good thing.

(To apply such a prayer in the name of Jehovah God on behalf of men that reject Him in worship and practice is blasphemy of that Holy and Perfect Name!)

To apply a Prayer that any person act with charity and brother love in the name of JEhovah is blasphemy. So all the times we pray for the lost to straighten up and act right to threat other fairly is blasphemy?

1. So the story in Kings and Chronicles is false Solomon did not erect a Temple to Jehovah.

2. WD you have a TN Craftsmen it is in it.

3. True and Yes you will find Him in the Ritual.

4. True but to a Christian it is not.