Will a Christian ever go to hell?

Another thing to think about. You don't go across the street and chastise your neighbor's child.

If we are children of the devil, God has no reason to chastise us. Chastisement is to help a "loved" child grow and learn.

There is something to think about, if you have no chastisement, you might want to make sure that you have the right father.

Of course, to qualify this, God will handle different people differently, just like you do real children. Some require a lot of chastisement and motivation; whereas others, may need encouragement. The Lord uses them all. He is the ULTIMATE parent.

 

Amen, Sister Michelle -- Preach it!

Do the math.
There are 2 Billion now living Christians
and 6 Billion dead Christians.
Assuming only 10% of these labeled "Christians"
are real Christians, that is 800 Million
Saved, Born-again, Christians.

The purpose of the Tribulation period is
to get the living Jews to accept
Jesus as their Messiah (individually).
There are now living on earth 14,000,000
(14 Million) Jews. How in the world
are 800,000,000 Christians going to help
rule over 14,000,000 Jews.
Do the math,
that is 57 Christians ruling over 1 Jew?
I don't think so.

BTW, i beleive there will be more like
2,000 Million Christians saved and that ratio
of CHristians to JEws is 143 Christians
for each Jew. Not all Christians will be
rewarded by being selected for service
with Jesus in the Millinnium.

Somebody asked where will these excess
saved born-again, Christian be during
the physical Millinnial Kingdom of Christ?

That depends on if you believe in the
pretribulation rapture or the postribulation
rapture. In the pretribulatin rapture
the excess saints will be living in
God'e heaven (not to confuse it with
the starry heaven or the sky heaven).
In the postribulation rapture view the
saints are judged in the sky and that
is where they will stay for 1,000 years

 

One word of WARNING here, and I know I'm preaching to the choir with Michelle, because she already knows this.

Don't be going around telling someone they are being punished if they have an illness or something. Jesus warns against this when his disciples asked "Who sinned, the person or his father." (I believe is the way it is stated--I don't have a Bible that I can reach right now.)

It is not our place to determine when punishment is taking place. If the person is a Christian, believe me, they will know it if they are being chastised (maybe not right at the moment, but it will become clear).

We are still living in a world full of sin and sickness and death will still occur and although it could be used for punishment, it is definitely not our call to straighten out a person. Read about Job's "helpful" friends.

 

Amen, Brother Phillip -- Preach it!

John 9:1-3 (HCSB):
As He was passing by, He saw a man blind
from birth.
2 His disciples questioned Him: "Rabbi,
who sinned, this man or his parents,
that he was born blind?"
3 "Neither this man sinned nor his
parents," Jesus answered. "This came
about so that God's works might be
displayed in him.

 

Amen!!!! Phillip. I agree. (Wow, I haven't yet had the opportunity to have said this to you and it is a nice refreshment from the normal conversations we have had in the past).


Love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

Thank you for the verse, Ed. You are certainly "quick on the draw".

 

No problem, Phillip.
Things are just easier with the HCSB

 

Well, we're human, Michelle, we have to disagree on some things. But, you and I are much closer in doctrinal belief, I feel, than many Baptists I know.

It is nice to fellowship like Christians should. One thing I know for certain is that you, me and Ed will have an eternity to praise the Lord.

Didn't Paul say that we are to rejoice when chastised by our Father? Again, today is not my day to quote scripture. Its been a long week.

 

KJV 1 Corinthians 9:25-27
25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.
26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:
27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

Was paul saved? Did he practice self control because he was afraid to be castaway? He did in the KJV!

Matthew 7:21-23
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Luke 12:45-47
45 But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken;
46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.
47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.

What is a portion with the unbelievers, if it is not a "portion" "with" the unbelievers?

Matthew 5:29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

Mark 9:43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:

Salvation by works, loss of salvation, or a legitimate warning to the eternally secure? Those are the only three choices.

1 Timothy 4:16 Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.

What was Paul warning Bro. Timothy to "save himself" from, by continuing in the doctrine?


KJV Hebrews 4:1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.KJV Hebrews 4:11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

You read the context. Saved Christians are warned to either labor or come short of entering the Millenial (7th Day) rest.

KJV Philippians 3:8-15
8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,
9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;
11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.
12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.
15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.

Paul is saved yet he is trying to "win Christ". He is perfect yet, trying to "attain unto the resurrection of the dead." He has been apprehended by Christ yet he "reaches forth" to "apprehend". What? He has the Free Gift yet he is struggling to obtain the "prize".

I love and respect you Michelle. Please don't fall into Dr. Bob's trap of hollering "heresy" every time he hears something new to him.

lacy

 

KJV Luke 12:48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.


KJV Hebrews 10:26-31
26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Lacy

 

I expect this topic will going to be closed, because it is now 20 pages already. I will going to start new topic about this - part two, and to discuss more continue.

Michelle,

You saying, yes God gives a talent to a unbeliever. You given these passages with verses to prove us.

You shows us of Matt. 7:8-11. That passage have do nothing with the judgment day and servant. That passage talking about the prayer. Look above verse 7 says, "Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:"

That passage does not relate with judgment day or servant, it talks about pray.

Christ does not give anything to person, unless if a person asks first.

You give other passage of Luke 12:23-32. Again, that passage does nothing with judgment day or servant. That passage talks about do not worry about anything, like as God take care of animals, animals never worry anything. We as humans easy to worry about food, clothes, bills, etc.

You just doing your own guesswork discuss on servant, as I have asked you of that question.

Obivously, Matt. 25:14-30 talk about the judgment day, God shall judge our works, because we are God's servants.

Often, I notice Chick tract, it says, "Well-done, thou good and faithful servant" as it shows the picture of judgement day. Obivously, it speaks to us as as servant of God. A servant, who follows master's command, and to serve the master. Jesus Christ is our master. He expects us to obey and serve him.

Many Christians agree on Matt: 25:21 is speak apply to us.

Yet, many pastors skip Matt. 25:30, they do not want to preaching on that verse, because they know it is obivously againsy security salvation. That why, they avoid it. Then, why not pastors take verse 30 out of the Bible according Rev. 22:19?

Lacy,

You showed these passages to us recently. You are aware of these passages are speak of conditional clearly.

You showed of 1 Cor. 9:25-27 to us. Verse 25 says, "And every man that striveth for the mastery is temparate in all things. Now they do is to obtain a corrupitble crown; but we an incorruptible."

Apostle Paul tells us, we are in the race, we are on the road toward into the kingdom of God - eternal life -1 Cor. 9:24-27.

Paul says, if he failed, himself should a castaway.

Word, 'castaway' means, not worthy, not approved, disqualified.

He knows, if he failed to overcome, himself shall be castaway, that mean, he lost the race, shall not enter the kingdom of God(Acts 14:22)

In fact, Matt. 7:13-14 telling us, more people going on the wrong road on the way unto destruction - everlasting fire. Few people going into the narrow road toward eternal life.

Jesus tells us, many STRIVE to enter the gate, most of them will not able enter - Luke 13:24 "Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able."

Christ already know, more people are on the way to hell than heaven. Because, most easily give up, and stopped serve the Lord, turn away in their own ways, they are ahead on the way to destruction is hell.

Also, Christ tells us, many are called, but FEW are chosen. Because, many easy to give up, and turn away and they are not chosen at the end.

Apostle Peter says, "Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to MAKE your calling and election SURE: for IF ye DO thse things, ye shall never fall:"

The fact tells us, many are called, but do not do the things, and not obey Christ, so, therefore they are not God's elect at the end.

You shows us of Matthew 7:21-23. That passage talks about the judgment day. Christ tells us, many will say to Him in that day, they will saying to him, they did do good works and serve the Lord faithfully. Many religions include baptists do serve the Lord, I am aware of. But, the Lord shall saying to them, "I never knew you: DEPART from me, ye that work iniquity."

Many will be cast away, not because of their good works, because of their iniquities. Iniquity means wicked, sinful.

Nothign wrong with being serve the Lord, Lord is please with us, as we serve him. But, the Lord hates hypcrocrite servant. A servant cannot serve the Lord while sinning same time - Matt. 6:24; & Luke 16:13. Lord commands us to be holy while serve the Lord same time. We must repent of our sins to Him daily, while we serve the Lord.

Matt. 7:21-23 tell us, many do their good works and serve the Lord, apply to many religions include baptists do serve the Lord, but many of them remain in their sins without repentance. That why, many are send into everlasting fire without have repentance.

Also, you shows us of Luke 12:45-47.

Luke 12:45-47 tell us, if a servnt says, his lord delays his coming, then he will criticize against his brothers, back to world again, sinning, and will not be aware of his lord comes upon him as thief, then a servant shall be cast away join with the unbelievers. Luke 12:45-47 fits or refer with Matt. 24:48-51. Christ tells us, a servant shall be cast away WITH the unbelievers, and shall be suffering with gnashing of teeth- speak of everlasting suffering in the lake of fire. Matt. 24:51 same with Matt. 25:30.

You shows us of Hebrews 4:1.

'Rest' - it does not saying anything about millennial kingdom, or "a thouand years".

The context of Hebrews chapter 3 and 4 give us the lesson of people, what happened to them, when they were with Moses in the wilderness for 40 years. They were not enter in the rest- Canaan, because of their disbelief. Same with Romans 11:19-23 tell us, they were cut off because of their disbelief. What happened to them? They are in hell, because of their disbelief.

When I was a student at Midwestern Baptist College in Pontiac, Mi. I took Pentatuech class. I remembered what the teacher taught. He said, wilderness is the picture of our trials, tribulations, that we are facing right now. Enter Canaan is the picture of heaven, being free from troubles, trials, and tribulations. He's right. I agree with him.

People with Moses were experinced in the wilderness reminds me of Acts 14:22 says, "Confirming the soul of the disciples, and exhorting them TO CONTINUE in the faith, and that we MUST THROUGH much tribulation ENTER INTO the kingdom of God."

Entering into the kingdom of God is not easy same with Matt. 7:13-14; & Luke 13:24.

Obivous, there are many passages in the Bible teaching us of conditional warnings.

You cannot tear Matt. 25:30 out of the Bible according to Rev. 22:19. You have to accept what Christ saying, and to obey him.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

 

--------------------------------------------------
Matthew 5:29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

Mark 9:43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
--------------------------------------------------


It is best, to rightly divide the word of truth, as we are commanded to do. Now read this, in line with the above:


1 Cor. 12


13. For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
14. For the body is not one member, but many.
15. If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?
16. And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?
17. If the whole body were an eye, where were the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where were the smelling?
18. But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him.
19. And if they were all one member, where were the body?
20. But now are they many members, yet but one body.
21. And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you.
22. Nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be more feeble, are necessary:
23. And those members of the body, which we think to be less honourable, upon these we bestow more abundant honour; and our uncomely parts have more abundant comeliness.
24. For our comely parts have no need: but God hath tempered the body together, having given more abundant honour to that part which lacked:
25. That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another.
26. And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it.
27. Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.
28. And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.
29. Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?
30. Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?
31. But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.


Philippians 3

1. Finally, my brethren, rejoice in the Lord. To write the same things to you, to me indeed is not grievous, but for you it is safe.
2. Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision.
3. For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.
4. Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more:
5. Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;
6. Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.
7. But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.
8. Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,
9. And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
10. That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;
11. If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.
12. Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
13. Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
14. I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.
15. Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.
16. Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing.
17. Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample.
18. (For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ:
19. Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.)
20. For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:
21. Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.


Romans 16

17. Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.
18. For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.
19. For your obedience is come abroad unto all men. I am glad therefore on your behalf: but yet I would have you wise unto that which is good, and simple concerning evil.
20. And the God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen.


Do not forget the tares, and those who are wolves in sheeps clothing. We are to separate ourselves from those who are walking disorderly, for this very reason. A little leaven, leaveneth the whole lump of dough. By the way, HELL is a SPIRITUAL abode, for the SPIRITUALLY dead, or rather those who are ETERNALLY SEPARATED FROM GOD. The SPIRIT of a SAVED person, is CLEANSED by the BLOOD OF THE LAMB, and WILL NOT, and CANNOT go to HELL. The saved are NEVER chastised in their spirit, ONLY IN THE FLESH, as we battle DAILY in the FLESH with our SPIRIT, as Paul has also said this:


Romans 6

1. What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2. God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
3. Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4. Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6. Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7. For he that is dead is freed from sin.
8. Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
9. Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
10. For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
11. Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
12. Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
13. Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
14. For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
15. What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
16. Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
17. But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
18. Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
19. I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.
20. For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.
21. What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.
22. But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
23. For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.


A truly born again saved person, is dead to sin, and now that we are saved, obey from the heart unto righteousness. WE follow Jesus Christ and OBEY him. The reason God chastises us, is in our flesh to help us become the perfect man in this flesh, in this life. Our spirits however, are already washed clean, and when we die, we remain with our Lord. We are NEVER PUNISHED IN OUR SPIRIT, as our SPIRIT IS RENEWED by our FAITH. ONLY our flesh is chastised, and therefore there is not chastisement to come AFTER our physical death, as being SAVED, we are not SPIRITUALLY DEAD, but SPIRITUALLY ALIVE in Jesus Christ and DEAD UNTO THE FLESH.


love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

--------------------------------------------------
26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
--------------------------------------------------


This is an IMPOSSIBILITY for a SAVED person. This is Pauls POINT! Jesus Christ is our Priest in Heaven, continually making intercession for the SAINTS, as HE CONVICTS them of sin unto repentance. If one is truly saved, that saved one will OBEY his Lord FROM FAITH AND LOVE.


--------------------------------------------------
27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
--------------------------------------------------


This is what the UNSAVED do, and Paul is making them and us really think about our Salvation - are we truly saved? Have we truly repented and recieved Christ's sacrifice? We are to check ourselves, because many FALSELY believe they are saved, when in fact they are not.
With true FAITH, is TRUE OBEDIANCE. Abraham is one such perfect example - He had faith in God, and OBEDIANCE automatically FOLLOWED. Not because of his own, but by the FAITH in and FROM God that worketh OBEDIANCE to GOD. More specifically however, he is referring to Israel, and how they have known the truth of God, but have willingly REJECTED Jesus Christ even though they should have known better, being in the truth of God. This is not talking about those who were saved, but those who were God's people who should have known better, but willingly REJECTED the truth of Jesus Christ and his sacrifice. They were NEVER saved, and are looking for the judgement of God, to which HE WILL have vengence on them. THey are without excuse.


--------------------------------------------------
28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
--------------------------------------------------


This is most definately speaking of those who REJECT Christ's sacrifice. Those who have not truly been saved, but only THOUGHT they were (such as the Jews). How can one who has been saved EVER HAVE SUCH THOUGHTS? God is dwelling in their hearts and minds of the TRUE BELIEVER, and this is an impossiblity with at saved person. It is not, however with the TARES.


--------------------------------------------------
30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
--------------------------------------------------


Yes, the Lord shall judge his people. Vengence does belong to him. He will most definately Judge the Israelites, to which He is speaking, and who have REJECTED JESUS CHRIST and HIS SACRIFICE. We who are SAVED have ACCEPTED IT, and there is not any vengence to be had. You need to learn to separate the saved, from the unsaved, the true church from Israel and the harlot church. You seem not to be able to discern this, and sadly because of this, are believing a FALSE TEACHING that ultimately denies the POWER OF THE CROSS OF JESUS CHRIST.


love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

---------------------------------------------------
That passage does not relate with judgment day or servant, it talks about pray.

Christ does not give anything to person, unless if a person asks first.
--------------------------------------------------


God gives to ALL men, whether they are SAVED, or UNSAVED, whether they ask or not. God is soveriegn, and God has created all, and is SOVERIEGN over ALL. My husband who is unsaved is a very smart man (that is worldly, not Godly) but his intelligence does not come from his own self, but GOD who has given it to him. The good job my husband has and the good money he makes, is not of his own (even though he thinks differently) but FROM OUR HEAVENLY FATHER! God giveth to ALL men. He did to me, even before I was saved. So please do not tell me, God only gives to those who are saved. This is not only contrary to the scriptural truth, but to the character, attributes and truth of God Almighty.


love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

Michelle, a couple of posts back you stated that a saved person could not "sin willfully". Do you honestly believe this? This is not scripturally correct if you do. Paul said that Peter sinned, and that he withstood him to the face....Demas sinned in the fact that he forsook Paul, loving the world more than God at the time.

 

It is impossible for a Christian to sin wilfully? I'm sorry sister but that is incorrect. We all can, and do, din willfully. What is impossible is to trample under foot the Blood that sanctified us and cry out, Don't worry, be happy, I'm saved."

What's to check? Either Christ's blood is sufficient or it is not. I have nothing else to check. I already checked John 3:16! This verse has nothing whatsoever to do with the unsaved. It is directed toward Christians.

They did not reject his sacrifice. It says they were sanctified by his blood. You are reading your theology into the verse. I used to do the same thing.

With your doctrine of "If you are really saved . . .", I think everyone would have these kinds of thoughts. How can you ever be saved if you have to have good fruit to know if you are "really" saved. The poor humble person would judge his fruit unworthy and never have assurance. While the proud would say, "I'm OK. My fruit is fine. I never killed anybody"

It's very easy to prove that Hebrews was written to saved individuals, not unsaved Jews. They were just as Christian as Paul and peter and me and you. The warnings apply. This is an error of hyper-dispensationalism which get's rid of a few of the warnings. They rejected him? They were sanctified by his blood! How much more saved can you be?

Sanctified by the blood=saved.
Not sanctified by the blood=not saved.
There. Separated.

Michelle, I "discerned" it for years. I'm a Baptist preacher. I grew up on this stuff. But then I was challenged to look at something new. I found it to be true. All the verses that I had relegated to "Methodist verses" or "Holiness verses" that seemed to clearly contradict the doctrine of eternal security, now became clear and there was no more contradiction.

Believe (faith alone) for eternal salvation. One time. Free Gift. Once saved always saved.

Work (run, strive, occupy, wrestle, etc.) for reward. Or else be chastened in this life and (possibly) in the next.


lacy

 

1) Hell is a "spiritual abode"? I need a verse. Hell is in the heart of the earth. (Easy to prove.) There are recognizable souls in hell with a tongue, eyes, a mouth that can talk, and are subject to burning pain. (Rich man and Lazarus). there were Physical bodies swallowed up by hell in the OT. And Christ warns Christians that they could possibly end up in hell bodily. (Matt 5). (BTW, no non-christian gets a body until the second ressurrection which is after the Kingdom when hell is destroyed. So technically, a Christian is the ONLY one who possibly could go to hell in a ressurrected body.)


2) We can never be chastened in our spirit? Maybe so, but my spirit is attached. And what it is attached to is what I am worried about.


Mt 18:8 -
Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire.

Mr 9:43 -
And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched

Lacy

 

--------------------------------------------------
Michelle, a couple of posts back you stated that a saved person could not "sin willfully". Do you honestly believe this? This is not scripturally correct if you do. Paul said that Peter sinned, and that he withstood him to the face....Demas sinned in the fact that he forsook Paul, loving the world more than God at the time.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Well, if you truly believe this, then we are all doomed to Hell as the scripture has said this as you all continually bring up for your "proof" that a christian can and will go to Hell to recieve punishment:


26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,


Rather, the willful sin being spoken of here, is WILLFULLY REJECTING THE SACRIFICE OF JESUS, when one knows the TRUTH, Has the knowledge of, aware of, such as the Jews. One who is truly SAVED cannot willfully sin, as they have ACCEPTED JESUS CHRIST as their SACRIFICE. The sin being spoken of is REJECTING JESUS CHRIST. This is SPIRITUAL SIN, not the fleshy sin, that a christian daily must contend with, and overcome through the POWER OF CHRIST.


Example: One who is a homosexual, and claims they are saved, CANNOT BE SAVED, if they remain in that SIN. If the Holy Spirit dwells in that person, HE will overcome that sin eventually. If he greives the Holy Spirit conviction of the heart, the person is showing that there is a hardening of the heart, which shows that the person was not SAVED TO BEGIN WITH. If one is TRULY REPENTFUL, they will not only ask for forgiveness, but TURN FROM THAT SIN. THey will NOT continue in it if they truly love the Lord. To teach that this person is really saved, but just disobeying the Lord, is DENYING THE POWER OF THE LORD JESUS CHRIST in the believers life.


love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

--------------------------------------------------
What's to check? Either Christ's blood is sufficient or it is not. I have nothing else to check. I already checked John 3:16! This verse has nothing whatsoever to do with the unsaved. It is directed toward Christians.

--------------------------------------------------


With true FAITH, comes TRUE OBEDIANCE. The Holy Spirit convicts our hearts to repentance. If we have truly FAITH, and have truly been saved, our hearts will be pricked and we will repent - ask for forgiveness and TURN FROM THAT SIN because the Lord has put it in our hearts to love him above ALL ELSE and He owns us, and has the POWER to turn us.


love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

--------------------------------------------------
They did not reject his sacrifice. It says they were sanctified by his blood. You are reading your theology into the verse. I used to do the same thing.
--------------------------------------------------


Every man is sanctified by the blood of Christ, but not EVERY man accepts it.


love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle