Will there be sinless people in hell?

True. But only if we stop at verse 39. If we go on to verse 40 it tells us of another group of people.

John 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
John 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Just a thought. These verses could be paraphrased as "All the people the Father has given to Me And all those that believe on Me, I will raise them up in the last day"

 

Since you guys are emphasizing words, I thought I would throw some more out there.
As I was reading this passage, I noticed something I had never noticed before.
In verse 39 Jesus says He will raise "it" up and in verse 40 He says He will raise "him" up.
What does this mean? What does He mean by "it"? The church?

Jhn 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

Jhn 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

 

I see your point!

Here are the verse again:

"And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day." (TNIV, emphasis mine)

Twice Jesus refers to the will of the Father and then goes on to explain what it is.

I see verse 40 not as a separate group but as the way those who were given to Jesus by the Father must come to Him: They must look to Him and Believe in Him for eternal life, which is guaranteed in the resurrection.

 

It refers to the corporate body of believers.
Him refers to believers... making the relationship more personal.

 

"It" in the Greek is neuter, agreeing with "all which," which is also neuter in Greek,

but

it's all stylistic by John and refers to the same group of people.

 

So, "it" means the church?

How have I missed this?

Interesting.

 

Do you mean that "it" and "him" have the same meaning? Why did John use different words?

 

Amy, a literal rendering of this part of the verse looks like this:

"So that everything that was given to me, I will lose none of it, but I will raise it up on the last day."

Every word that I've highlighted is neuter in Greek.

 

Thanks TC. It seems though that John is making a distinction using "it" in verse 39 and "him" in verse 40. It seems he is speaking of 2 things.
But you are the expert in Greek.

 

TC,
Thanks for your reply. I see what you are saying. It may be a translation issue because the KJV doesn't read like that. I have always been under the thought that God has His elect, but He also draws all to Him.

John 6:37-40 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

The way this reads leads me to believe that there are some that are elected and some that are not, but that does not mean that some will not be given everlasting life (Non-elect).

Consider this:
Eph 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

I read this as being gifts to all of us. In other words, He gave all people the gift of prophets in the OT. They were elected and given to the people as a gift from God. The early church was given the gift of the apostles, and so on...

 

John is just being stylistic.

Let me illustrate from other places in John.

John 13:23: "The disciple whom Jesus loved." The Greek word for "loved" is agape.

Now John 20:2: "The one Jesus loved." The Greek for "loved" is not agape but philew.

This is a common Greek feature.

 

It can be a translation issue, but others have taught what I been saying while using the KJV.

I do believe that all believers are gifted for ministry, but I do not use Eph 4:11 to prove that point.

Notice that these gifts differ from what we read in Rom 12 and 1 Cor 12.

This list in Eph 4:11 is for what is stated in v. 12, the following verse:

"11 So Christ himself gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the pastors and teachers, 12 to equip his people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up" (TNIV, emphasis mine).

The group was given to equip the larger group, which would have been gifted for "works of service."

 

On this we are in complete agreement.

 

Act 2:47Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

"through faith" is still the vehicle, you must believe.

BBob,

 

Agreed. If I read you right, you're following up on TC Greek's quote of John 6:37-39. I see no conflict here.

 

There is one thing I am not sure of and its out of John 3:16. It basically says believe and you will be saved which is true but don't misunderstand its meaning. I think that is perfectly true, but our understanding of believing may be a lie because we make mistakes. Jesus has to turn the light on for you to see the truth, I have heard many say they beleive, whether they are saved or not this where I cannot say. I can only look at myself. I have beleived in Jesus since day 1 of hearing it at age 10, but the truth is I didn't accept him to be Lord of my life until recently. If I really believed in Him at age 15-21 when I was out going crazy on the town and getting into all kinds of sinful acts I wouldnt have done the stuff and followed Him. at age 22(different story, but this is good for the discussion) I realized for the first time and understood Jesus and He reveiled the answer I accepted, repented, and made a 180 and followed Him and sinned no more. (not saying I won't sin on accident, but I wouldnt tell a small lie for a million dollars on purpose knowing what I now know). 1 John is a good source. Many can tell themselves they believe, but until the light is turned on and you see clearly or Jesus knocks and you open the door you don't beleive? Seek and you will find Him he says. If someone told me they gave me food in my room when I was hungry, if I believed I'd go get it and eat, but if I didn't believe I wouldnt go eat. So I think beyond your talk and your so called knowledge in this world your actions and what you do is a big witness of what you truly believe. I have been stuck on this believe thing for a while now and that is simply just a step to Jesus for us because He knows us better than we do and knows if we believe. We are all blind coming in until our door gets knocked on and He shows the answer but most can't stop in their tracks and follow Him. You must come as a child to Him he reveils and then we see so we may beleive.

I am not on your subject because it seems to be covered, but I did see a lot of people say that believe and your saved and I just wanted to stop at that and discuss that for a second. For a long time I lied to myself saying I believed my whole life but I think until you truly do see the light you are blind and as Jesus said, "they may indeed see but not perceive, and may indeed hear but not understand, lest they should turn and be forgiven."
You aren't truly sorry unless you turn and give all you have to stop in your tracks. If you truly believe you will stop, unless you do not see or hear. this is what I understand.

"Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few."

I dont think its as easy as just telling yourself you beleive, but again I am not arguing its just what I am currently trying to pinpoint so I can be a true witness and not be off track on anything.

 

Jhn 1:9[That] was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

Jhn 3:19And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

Jhn 3:20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

Jhn 3:21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

Its rather hard to find an excuse, since Jesus came.

BBob,

 

No confusion here of scripture understood.

 

Your list is in error.

 

Amen friend!
At age 10, like so many of us, you acknowledged their was a God. You believed with your mind but not with your heart. God searches the hearts of men. "For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation" (Rom 10:10).
It was at age 22 you believed with your heart. That is why you will refrain from that "small lie". When people truly believe from their heart, it is reflected in their walk.
Example:
Many people "believe" that tobacco causes cancer, yet they still use the product. I don't think anyone sets out to get cancer, but they don't truly believe it from their heart. If they did, their eyes would be open and they wouldn't use it.

Praise God that He promised He would knock on the heart (Open the eyes) of all people. Those that believe (Trust in Christ, Faith) with their whole heart, will walk as you do. Those that only have head religion (believe like you and I did at age 10), will not show the change. They may endure for a time, but they will make it manifest that the true birth didn't take place. They may confess with the mouth, but what someone believes from the heart is always shown in their walk.