Wine As A Beverage

I heard a minister preach on this a few year ago. Basically, I remember three things:

1. If it says "wine" and good things are mentioned afterwards, then the Scriptures really mean it's not wine as we know it, but really grape juice.
2. If it says "wine" and bad things are mentioned afterwards, then the Scriptures really mean that it is wine.
3. In fact, it is heresy to say that Jesus drank real wine.

There was a lot of Scripture twisting (IMHO) to get there. However, I think this is the strong belief of many conservative Christian groups. In this case, it was an IFB church.

 

Whoa, whoa, whoa. That takes some serious gymnastics to arrive at those assumptions. It also takes the slimmest of Scripture passages, most of which do no apply, instead of taking the entirety of the word here.

Appearance of evil? Ah, yes, the favorite passage of the homeschool community of my youth. The only people to whom it appears evil are those who are legalistic. Furthermore, that passage explicitly refers to prophecies that are not of the spirit. The general, almost flippant use it often finds today with regard to music or movies or...well...alcoholic beverages is completely spurious and illegitimate.

Don't forget that we have to interpret Scripture. We can't just always skim its superficial appearance.

 

Drinking or not drinking wine as a beverage comes under things that are neither right or wrong in themselves (Romans 14) and so to make this an issue of doctrine is stupid! Paul promotes voluntary abstinance of wine altogether whether it is offensive to you or it is a stumbling block to others.

14 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean......19 Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another.
20 For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence.
21 It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.
22 Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.

 

Do you allow your ten year old to drink a beer with you?

 

Do you allow your ten year old to drink a beer with you?

 

(if I had a ten year old) No, neither would I permit him to drive a car, carry a gun, have a credit card or choose where he goes to church.

 

Do you drink beer? And if so, Why not let your ten year old?

 

Do you allow your ten year old to drink coffee with you? Some don't.

 

WHy do you think that is?

 

HP: Sorry, but what is sad is that a person sporting DR in front of their name is so ignorant of the principles of morality, the evils of alcohol and drugs, and what Scripture has to say concerning any such issue.

 

I believe that Scripture indicate we will be held accountable for the blood of others if we have led them astray. Making a blanket statement that drinking is not nor can be a sin issue is flat contradictory to Scripture. Even eating a fruit has proved to be sin in at least one case, ask Adam and Eve.

 

If one has been careful to notice, I for one have not stated that it is necessarily sin for anyone to drink alcohol. For starters, it would depend upon the light one has been given. What might be sin for me may not be sin for you. One thing to consider carefully is the influence upon others.

I have a friend I have known for years that has been a temperate drinker from all outward signs. I have never seen this man drunk, and have never heard any indication that he abused his wife or family due to his drinking. He has never to my knowledge ever received any citation for the use of alcohol. One might at first glance consider this man to be the ‘model drinker.’

He had a son that had just turned eighteen. He loved this boy with all his heart and was careful to spend time with him on every possible occasion to hunt, fish, or attend sporting events. When fishing, etc, he allowed his son to drink an occasional beer with him, and always kept beer in his refrigerator.

In his sons last year in HS, a friend of his sons was tragically killed in a car accident. His son spoke to his dad and got the use of their new SUV to attend the funeral of their friend. The young boy left and on the way, picked up another young friend to ride to the funeral together. His father had already gone to work that day, and un known to his father, he took some beer out of the refrigerator to drink on the way to the funeral with his friend, to help drown the sorrow of their mutual loss. Traveling down the Interstate on the way to the funeral they started to miss their exit, when the driver swerved to make sure he would not miss it, and in the process rolled his Dad’s new SUV and both young men lost their lives instantly.

Sure this could have happened without alcohol being involved. Just the same, both boys had a low alcohol count in their blood stream.

Let me ask the reader, what influence did his fathers ‘moderate' drinking’ (if there is such a thing) have on this son and the other young man killed in this accident?

I believe that if anyone honestly considers the issue of alcohol from any perspective other than a selfish one, they will never allow such an easily abused substance such as alcohol touch their lips, and never allow such a substance to be found unattended in their homes.

That selfish sip of drinking even in moderation may be the impetus of a lifetime of sorrow and grief.

If my son goes out and consumes alcohol, and is killed in a tragic accident, I can lay my head on my pillow at night and know that I have done my best to train him in the way he should go, and I believe I could rest in the grace of God to comfort me in my grief. I wonder if my friend is resting in peace as he lays his head on his pillow? May God comfort his grieving heart and give those reading this post ears to hear.

 

If my son goes out and consumes alcohol, and is killed in a tragic accident, I can lay my head on my pillow at night and know that I have done my best to train him in the way he should go, and I believe I could rest in the grace of God to comfort me in my grief. I wonder if my friend is resting in peace as he lays his head on his pillow? May God comfort his grieving heart and give those reading this post ears to hear. [/QUOTE]

In college, I knew more children of abstainers who abused alcohol than children of moderate drinkers. Though the circumstances are quite sad and unfortunate, I don't think the anecdote lends any wisdom for either position.

But you are correct that, for those whose faith is weak (as described in Romans), it would be sin to consume, as it is contrary to God's leading. It also would not be proper in that instance for those people to judge those whose faith is strong in this case.

 

For one thing, I'm not a parent. For another, this makes absolutely no difference in the situation. I would not allow a child of that age to drink because I don't believe that is developmentally appropriate. Also, for those who live where there is a legal drinking age, it's decided for us already.

But it doesn't matter, anyway; a completely spurious proposition.

 

HP: There is wisdom.:thumbs:

HP:There is still the question of influence on others regardless of how strong one might believe they are.

Pr 20:1 ¶ Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise.

 

Please try to stay on point. The issue here is alcohol. Would you like to answer the question about alcohol?

 

Yet, you believe the teaching of "Do as I say and not as I do" is good godly advice for a child.

Are you suggesting that the government has the final say as to whether it is ok to partake in something?

 

First, I am in no way purporting a "do as I say...." standard. As others have brought up, I can drive a car, vote, marry, and a bunch of other things that become age appropriate at a certain time. Suggesting that is bizarre and strange. It is okay for adults to drink if they choose. I am an adult. A ten-year-old is not, but when he becomes an adult (or meets the legal age), he may make that decision as he feels led.

Second, sweet mercy, no I'm not suggesting the government has the final say in all things, or in this matter specifically. But I'm going to follow the law to the best of my ability and I would expect the same out of my children.

 

I won't bring beer to their pool party, if that's the case.