Wine Bibbing and Gluttony

Thanks for the agreement. Rhetorician is the one who said that "And many times in the NT these two, drunkeness and gluttony, are coupled together."

 

Strong drink has its place. It is for the dying. But today the doctors give things such as morphine, etc. Wine is not always condemned. Its abuse is always condemned.

Show me one place where gluttony has any use. Its use is always condemned in scripture.

I can easily condemn what scripture does. </font>[/QUOTE]I said gluttony was a sin. What more do you want? The problem is that gluttony hardly ever appears in the Bible (a total of five times for the words "glutton," "gluttony" and "gluttonous," and two of those are the Pharisees attacking Jesus), so your statement that "its use is always condemned in Scripture" is disingenuous. On the other hand, alcohol abuse is condemned many times.

 

Didn't think you did, bapmom.

 

I wasn't prooftexting. I was being sarcastic, which is an improper use of Scripture. I was wrong to do so.

I agree completely. I recognize the medical use of alcohol. I myself take Nyquil when I have a cold, and have no problem doing so.

It is not my purpose here to attack social drinking or debate the merits of teetotalism. If Rhetorician had made this thread, "Why I think it is all right to have a glass of wine with my meal," I would not even have posted. What I highly object to as very inappropriate and insensitive to the victims of alcohol abuse is making gluttony an equal sin to alcohol abuse.

My son grew up just fine, thank you, with my abstinence teaching. He is now in seminary and serving the Lord.

Oh, no, outlaw obesity and have the fat police knocking at our doors? I'm glad you are not in the legislature. Or maybe I've misunderstood you here? I hope?

Since you bring up drunk driving, let me ask you. Has anyone ever hit and killed a pedestrian while driving under the influence of Twinkies? No of course not. Obesity, which as you point out can be deadly to the obese person, is not a danger when the obese person drives. This is one more reason why alcohol abuse is much worse than gluttony.

 

For the record:

I believe in taking care of the temple of the Holy Spirit, as my kung fu "sihing" (elder brother) taught me to many years ago. I exercise regularly (am a martial arts instructor), get plenty of sleep, try not to overeat, and avoid most junk food and sugared pop. I am slightly overweight by some standards, but at my check up this year my doctor did not tell me to lose weight.

I thought I'd get this out there before someone else misunderstands and thinks I approve of gluttony.

I do not approve of gluttony. But I really, really do not approve of alcohol abuse, having seen in my own family and pastoral counseling the terrible damage it can do.

Having said that, let's be compassionate to both the alcoholic and the glutton. Frankly, I thought the opening statement of this thread was a little bit nasty towards obese people.

 

Thank you for your gracious reply, Rhetorician.

For the record, I haven't preached on alcohol in almost 20 years. It is much more important to handle such serious problems privately in Japan, through counseling. And I have never preached on gluttony--never had the need in my congregation, and I preach what they need, not what I want. I love my church people, though it is only a tiny little Japanese church.

 

Thank you for your prayers. It is always good to hear about a college prof who cares about missions. God bless you for that, and may your tribe increase.

And if I ever win a sumo wrestler to Christ, maybe I'll preach on gluttony!

 

I think it might be worthwhile to point out that some skinny people might be gluttons also.

 

Honest question.....what would we consider to be a definition of gluttony?

overeating? (like at Thanksgiving)

using food for comfort?

Is there one even?

 

Here is the definition Insuranceman gave previously for gluttony.

 

Here is the original International Standard Bible Encyclopedia (1915, now in the public domain) article on gluttony.

This article has only 150 words. By contrast, the 1915 ISBE article on drunkenness has 1556 words, over ten times the number, so we see where the Bible puts the emphasis (and this doesn't even include the article DRINK, STRONG!).



GLUTTON; GLUTTONOUS

glut'-'-n, glut'-'-n-us (zalal, "to be lavish"; phagos): "Glutton" (from glut, to swallow greedily) is the translation of zolel from zalal, "to shake or pour out," "to be lavish, a squanderer." In Ezr 1:11, "This our son .... is a glutton, and a drunkard," the word may mean a squanderer or prodigal; the English Revised Version has "a riotous liver." In Pr 23:21, "For the drunkard and the glutton shall come to poverty" (following zole bhasar, "squanderers of flesh," the Revised Version (British and American) "gluttonous eaters of flesh"), "glutton" in the usual sense is intended; "a man gluttonous," "a gluttonous man" (the Revised Version) (phagos, "an eater," "a glutton") was a term applied to Christ in His freedom from asceticism (Mt 11:19; Lu 7:34).

The Revised Version has "idle gluttons" (margin Greek, "bellies") for "slow bellies" (Tit 1:12); "gluttonous" "gluttons," for "riotous" (Pr 23:20; 28:7).

W. L. Walker

 

This is interesting....so its wastefully eating, or overindulging in general. Seems to me that it could even refer to more than just eating.

 

If one eats just 1 calorie over what the body requires then we have overeaten. It is at very least wasteful.

Obviously we have no way on a day to day basis (depending on activities) to know what that exact amount would be or an effective way to measure the exact caloric value of everything we eat.

However, gluttony IMO would involve a practice of overeating.

Let your bathroom scale/mirror be your guide (Hmm)?


HankD

 

I think it might be worthwhile to point out that some skinny people might be gluttons also. </font>[/QUOTE]Am I missing something? How could it be that a skinny persn could be a glutton? If one burns the calories he eats how could he be eating more than is needed?

 

Gluttony is not defined by caliroc intake vs caloric output. Gluttony is defined as excess in consumption. Eating 3000 calories of donuts or Big Macs in one sitting is typically gluttonous. It doesn't become less gluttonous just because you go to the gym and work it off. It just means you're not guilty of sloth.

There are skinny gluttons who are not sloths. There are also overweight sloths who are not gluttons.

 

Gluttony is not defined by caliroc intake vs caloric output. Gluttony is defined as excess in consumption. Eating 3000 calories of donuts or Big Macs in one sitting is typically gluttonous. It doesn't become less gluttonous just because you go to the gym and work it off. It just means you're not guilty of sloth.

There are skinny gluttons who are not sloths. There are also overweight sloths who are not gluttons. </font>[/QUOTE]I can sort of see what you mean about eating a bunch of donuts. I had a job where I probably burned at least 5-6000 calories per day when I was much younger. I ate a lot of food. Anyone who would have seen me would wonder why I wasn't fat. I rode a bicycle 20 miles one way to work and worked a job that was hard. During that time I would take a loaf of bread and make it into sandwiches, bring a quart or pears, 1/2 gallon of kool aid and something else like cookies. That was just my lunch.

I my Webster's dictionary gluttony is defined as "excessive eating and drinking."

How could the fat person not be overeating and not be gluttonous?

So I don't think I fully understand what you mean.

 

By eating excessively.

While more times than not a fat person rather than a skinny person is the likely glutton, gluttony and obesity are two different things (with the latter often caused or complicated by the former). But a skinny person can be a glutton - perhaps with a supercharged metabolism that keeps the fat off, drug abuse, or the old "binge and purge" method. I don't know that I can define or discern all the reasons, but I've seen some skinny people who were ravenous eaters.