"Wives Submit To Your Husbands In Everything?"

No, Christ is the head of the Household, not the husband, not the wife. When a husband and wife submit to each other, they affirm this. If the husband doesn't submit, Christ can't be the head of the household.

 

Amein!

I would not a marriage in which our Lord was not
the Head.

 

Judges...buzzzzzzzzzzz. Wrong.

1 Cor. 11 is quite clear.

The head of woman is man.
The head of man is Christ.
The head of Christ is God.

Now, let us follow the logic of liberals:
Man and woman are equals in authority.
Christ and man are equals in authority.
Christ and God (Father) are equals in authority.
Man and woman and God are equals in authority.

Yeah, I haven't heard this kind of stuff before: the deification of Man and the belittling of God. Very original.

I realize, Johnv, that you probably don't accept the logical conclusion, I just wanted to point it out.

 

Again, the fallacies are numerous.

First, the word "head" does mean authority. The Lord himself established several lines of authority in life: government, church, family, and marriage.

Second, it isn't about cooperation or bullying women or anything but order. God is a God of order and from the Garden of Eden, He set the man as the head of everything.

Third, Ephesians 5:21 has nothing to do with "mutual submission" in marriage. You can look at it one of two ways; each are equally true:

Believers are to submit to all other believers in certain ways but not in everything or to everyone.

Paul was setting forth an initial command and then he specified how it relates to each of us. For example -
Wives submit to your husbands
Children submit to your parents
Servants submit to your master.

 

"Under the Biblical standard, the wife is to arrange her demeanor in a manner that is consistent with how a true believer approaches the LORD. It is NOT a master/slave relationship as many might first conjure in their minds when reading this verse. It IS a FRIENDSHIP relationship (John 15: 15)."

Hello.....helllllllooooo! Did anyone see my post in which I pointed out that John 15:14 says,

"Ye are my friends if ye do whatsoever I command you"?????

If John 15:15 has anything at all to do with the relationship of husband and wife it proves conclusively that wifes are to do whatever their husbands command them. And that is, in fact, the case, because I Peter 3 and Titus 2 both instruct wives to OBEY their husbands.

That is the end of the issue for any godfearing man or woman.

Mark Osgatharp

 

This is an outstanding thread. It deserves a place in a marriage/family archive, if one exists. While I commend all of you for your insight, I have a few questions to ask...

Is a wife ever justified in questioning her husband's decisions? Is it forgivable, or is it viewed as being indicative of some hidden lack of trust?

It's a tough world, and many girls are raised to be self-sufficient (my mother was a Marine before she married!) and these values are passed on. This independence may be evident in the woman's willingness to ineptly hang a picture in the home or in the assumption that her opinion has a place in a conversation.

Does a differing opinion belong in a Christian marriage? Does a differing opinion necessarily indicate dissent? Does a differing opinion require compromise? Or is it simply a reminder that though we're ONE in the Lord, we live in separate bodies with separate minds.

Just thought I'd throw a curve ball and see who went for it!

 

I have no problem if my wife questions my decision, as long as she quesions it for good reason. A good reason might be that I didn't think it through all the way, or that I was missing some vital information when I made it, or maybe I just made a bone headed decision. She might just need some more information about why I made a decision to feel comfortable about it. In the end there will be times when we disagree on a decision, but we have agreed that I make the final decisions in the family.

There is nothing to forgive. Questioning is a part of being a human, man or woman. If we didn't quesion then I seriously doubt any of us would have been looking for the answer we found in Jesus. Look what we would have missed out on if we handn't found that answer.

Absolutly. If I don't hear a differing opinion then I have nothing to test my knowledge against. I do not know everything and my wife just might give me some insight I would have otherwise missed. If we don't listen to others viewpoints we will never grow, we will just live in our own litte world.

In the end ONE person needs to make a decision, but that dosn't mean that ONE person has to make it without the HELP of his wife.

Bill

 

Those are helpful answers.

What if the husband thinks the reason for questioning isn't valid?

Actually, I've experienced many a paradigm shift as a teacher. I've been bent seeing an issue resolved my way, only to find that vital pieces of information completely changed my perspective. I find that this happens a lot, but I have learned that there are many who are threatened by a difference of opinion (my own father included).

I will also add that saying nothing and praying about it later seems to resolve some conflicts, but I don't always have the patience to wait for God's answer.

OK, back to the subject...that was a great post, Bible Believin' Bill. Is there scripture that supports the sharing of opinions and some teamwork in process of decision-making?

 

BibleBelievingBill --
Are you sure you arre not my husband, MtnWalker,
in disguise?? May our God bless openly and
thoroughly all husbands like BibleBelievingBill and
MtnWalker; they deserve it. And may all husbands
on this board become like them.

 

I would thing almost anything was vaild as long as she came to me in a kind and loving manner. If she does that then I will listen to what she has to say. If she came to me screaming What kind of a bone headed, numbskull decision was that! then I would be inclined not to listen to her.

These two verses tell me to love and honor my wife. How does one love and honor their spouse? A big part of it is by showing that I respect and value what she has to say.

Bill

 

I posted this in the ladies private forum and thought I'd share here as well.

(Prov 31:11 KJV) The heart of her husband doth safely trust in her, so that he shall have no need of spoil.

I think that Proverbs 31 lady was very submitted to her husband and obeyed him in all things. And yet, she did not have to come to him for permission for every little thing. He knew he could safely trust her and she had probably gained this through her submission.

I think a lot of people hear "obey" and get the wrong impression. God tells me to love, reverence, obey, and submit to my husband with a meek and quiet spirit, and by God's grace I try to do that. Over the years it has brought it's own rewards, and one of those is my husband's trust.

I believe that when a woman does defer to her husband's desires, she gains his trust and he knows that she will bring no shame to him, his name, or his household. She need not come to him, nor does he necessarily want her to come to him, about every little thing. He trusts her to run the household smoothly, use the money she has wisely, rear the children in the nurture and admonition of the Lord, and a host of other such things while he is away from the home. He knows that her desire is to him.

However, I think we need to remember that a husband's love, nourishing, and cherishing of his wife is not dependent on her submission. Neither is a wife's love, submission, obedience, or reverence dependent on whether or not her husband is living in obedience to the Lord. God loved us when we were His enemies and Christ submitted Himself to God's will for our sake when we didn't have a clue. This should be our example when faced with a spouse who does not seem to be keeping up their end.

I desire not only for my husband to love me, to nourish me, to cherish me, to be my protector, but I desire to have his trust as well. I believe that over the years I have gained that through quiet, loving submission and reverence, though I am by no means perfect about it! Lord knows I have my really bad days when I just feel like rebelling like nobody's business! LOL . . . those are the days when I have to either lock myself in my room for a while or do much praying. Or both!

Of course, there's always the issue of the spirit of a wife's submission, which is a whole 'nuther topic!

Julia

[ September 08, 2002, 01:46 AM: Message edited by: KeeperOfMyHome ]

 

(Prov 31:10 KJV) Who can find a virtuous woman? for her price is far above rubies.

Do you know why a virtuous woman's price is far above rubies? I think it is because she is full of wisdom. I was reading in Proverbs one day and came across these verses:

(Prov 3:13 KJV) Happy is the man that findeth wisdom, and the man that getteth understanding.

(Prov 3:14 KJV) For the merchandise of it is better than the merchandise of silver, and the gain thereof than fine gold.

(Prov 3:15 KJV) She is more precious than rubies: and all the things thou canst desire are not to be compared unto her.

(Prov 8:11 KJV) For wisdom is better than rubies; and all the things that may be desired are not to be compared to it.

Wisdom, in Proverbs, is said to be of greater value than rubies, a very precious stone. A man who has found a woman of virtue has found a woman of wisdom. It is also said of this Proverbs 31 woman that she openeth her mouth with wisdom; and in her tongue is the law of kindness .

I believe that if a husband has found a virtuous woman, he will not mind one bit if she asks questions of a decision he has made or is about to make. I believe that because she is wise, especially in her speech, he knows she only means well and that it's not a rebellious sort of questioning.

Julia

 

Apologies to Justified:

pinoybaptist: wife, jump, right now !!
wife: how high, honey ?

pinoybaptist: wife, laugh. right now !!
wife: how long do you want me to laugh, sweet ?

pinoybaptist: wife, come to bed with me, right now !!
wife: sure, dear. just let me get these off. It's my "first" day, honey.

(Get the idea ?)

pinoybaptist: wife, we really need this item in our house and I know you'd love to have it, but, I've been looking at the budget and I've decided we can make do without it for now.
wife: that's fine, dearie. we'll get it later.

 

Dear Jamal5000,

I can only warn you that you are not alone in being influenced by feminism, as most of the posts on here might as well have been posted by Gloria Steinem, being the quintesence of FEMINISM. I can scarcely bring myself to believe all the absolute RUBBISH that is presented in this string as though it had anything to do with the BIBLE! I hope to be able to address some of these posts one by one when and if I get the time, but I thought just to point out for now that if obedience does not mean obedience, and submission does not mean submission, and if thinking that they do means that you do not love your wife, that you are overbearing, and domineering, etc.(the very thing this post will be condemened for by all the feminists, (despite the prognostication), then WHAT ON EARTH DOES IT HAVE TO DO WITH THE CHURCH'S RELATIONSHIP TO CHRIST!!!!!! God help us if we can't see that! We need, then, to call the ten commandments "The Ten Suggestions", and change Mat.28:19 to read.. "Half power in heaven and earth has been given unto me... ect." How absolutely idiotic. If this is people's view of their duty to submit to Christ, then NO WONDER THEY ARE BLIND TO THE BIBLE.
The thing I find so hilarious is that they don't give an equal mutilation to the duty of the man to love his wife.... Why if I were to take their standard of biblical interpretation, I could just say.... "You see the word love doesn't really mean love, but it just means that your not to hate her as much as others"

I think that the one woman put it best when she said:
"I think a lot of people hear "obey" and get the wrong impression. God tells me to love, reverence, obey, and submit to my husband with a meek and quiet spirit, and by God's grace I try to do that. Over the years it has brought it's own rewards, and one of those is my husband's trust."
Perfect! But if you walk in rebellion to your husband and have lost his confidence and trust, then his rule over you will indeed seem a burden.... but don't blame him. Repent of your rebellion, and see how it goes then, and then see if you have anymore motive for twisting the word of God to this perverse image of modern feminism. No.... it will "have its own reward", and your fulfillment will be something other than having finally domineered over your husband, but the actual love, respect, and cherishing that you desire and need.... not being loved and cherished.... as a HUSBAND!
G4G

 

I wonder what our God's intentions were, what
motivated Him, when He told Avraham, "What-
ever Sarah says, do it."

I am not asking this question in order to claim
that Sarah should have been in his face all the
time, tellling Avraham what to do, but this is one
of the times our God encouraged a husband
to recognize that a woman is also a contributor
to decision-making.

 

I totally agree, frankly, and have this verse marked in my bible with notes to that effect.... And I think it a thing that is important for men to remember as they consult their wives about household decisions. But the verse is no pretext for those that wish to make the case that men hae no authority over their homes. God didn't go to Sarah, and tell her what to do, but to ABRAHAM... right? Why? Because he is the head of the household. But let us not forget, that this was the woman who was praised for calling Abraham "Lord", and set forth as an example to all women in THAT thing, who we must, therefore, assume reckoned herself obliged, as a godly woman, to follow Abraham's decision should he ultimately have required it differently.
I think that this point is underscored also in the matter of God's attacking Moses when he had disobeyed and failed to circumcise his boys, due to his wife's objections. God did not go take it up with his wife.... it was a thing MOSES was responsible to get done. Thus when a wife's influence is used in the wrong way, it is equally a man's duty to NOT follow her advice, but require that the family go on in the ways of the Lord.....if he doesn't, God may take it up with Him with an unpleasant chastisement.

G4G

 

Before dating my present husband, I had many
unhappy experiences with men who believed
that because they were men, they had all rights
over me. I learned early in my dating career to
"lay down the law" before going out with any of
them.

"I will be glad to go out with you, if you will get
these things straight in your head:
* We are going out to just enjoy one another, so--
* Don't try to plan my future, because we have no
long future together.
* Keep your hands to yourself.
* Don't make my decisions for me.
* Don't order my food.
* You're not driving my vehicle.
* I can pay my own way.

Well, after that, you would think they would not
want to go with me, but they did. I soon learned
why: to see if I meant it. I learned quickly to date
only believers, but that did not stop things. One
guy in particular claimed to be oh so holy, and I
only agreed, after The Talk, to go to the mall with
him. He was all over me! Trying to hold hands,
trying to put his arm around me, trying to claim
ownership. It was disgusting! I never imagined
I would end up fighting this guy off and con-
stantly dodging him In The Mall!

Do you men understand why we women can get
so hard-nosed?

Then I started dating MtnWalker. By the time we
met, I wanted NOTHING to do with men, so when
he asked me out, I yelled at him and told him that
there were plenty of good-looking much younger
women out there; go find one. But he laughed,
said that he wanted to be with me, so we went
out--to the zoo with our children.

Well, surprise, surprise! He kept his hands to him-
self, didn't insist on driving because he was The
Man, didn't tell me what to do, and did not try to
take over my future. When I told him I did
NOTHING outside of marriage, he said that was
what he planned, too, and he did not change his
mind later.

I am So Grateful for a husband whose preroga-
tive is not to squelch me but to encourage me!
I feared marriage, after my first husband died,
first of all, because I had much to learn before
another marriage (I refused to put another man
through what I put the first through), and second
of all, because I was a grown woman, not a child,
as some men treat their wives.

I am so grateful for a husband who, when we
were dating, did not have necking as his preroga-
tive; we spent hours and HOURS talking, learning
about one another, setting up boundaries and
tearing down other boundaries.

I am so grateful for a husband who wanted to
enter into marriage pure, saving ourselves for
marriage, even though we had both been wid-
owed. How IMPORTANT it was, because we
both had teenaged chiildren who Asked Ques-
tions and wanted to Know what we were doing
when we were "out." Not only that, the teen girls
at my church asked lots of questions. As a tes-
timony to our God, I, a 38-year-old widow, wore
white in our wedding.

All these things have been the mainstays in our
marriage--that our God was given first place
from the beginnning of our relationship, that he
respects me and I him.

[ September 08, 2002, 10:36 AM: Message edited by: Abiyah ]

 

Interesting...how do you deal with Ephesians 5:22-24?

 

Is a wife ever justified in questioning her husband's decisions?

Absolutely. Whenver she feels his decisions may negatively impact the family or marriage. Or when she feels his decisions may be immoral. A good wife does not blindly follw her husbands edicts. Likewise, a good husband does not make decisions affecting the marriage and family without discussing them with his mate.

Behind every good man, there is a good woman.
Behind every bad man, there may be a good or bad woman.
Behind every good man, there is never a bad woman.

The only way a marriage is successful is if both husband and wife are in agreement. Otherwise, discord occurs, and the marriage becomes unhealthy.