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Women Teaching Men

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Michael Wrenn, Jan 3, 2012.

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  1. Christos doulos

    Christos doulos New Member

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    My friend. If a believer truly has Jesus Christ doing ongoing work in him, and the Holy Spirit dwelling in him then he cannot help but bear fruit. He will not think women as unequal or condone slavery etc.....It's true that man can be ignorant, but that is why we have scripture. We either accept or we don't, but if we accuse another brother or sister in Christ of abhorrent teaching then we better have scripture with proper hermeneutics to back up our accusations.
     
    #41 Christos doulos, Jan 4, 2012
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  2. Christos doulos

    Christos doulos New Member

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    I have to say this. I am black and if I saw a scripture stating that black people cannot be spiritual leaders. I wouldn't like it and I will do my best to find scripture to refute it, but if I couldn't then I will have to resign to the fact that scripture is clear and that God; not I know best.
    To do otherwise knowing I couldn't find any scripture to support me but my own emotional reasoning of wanting to do the Lord's work would be a sin and blatant disobedience on my part, and if I call people down as racists in order for them to see it my way will in no way negate the truth of scripture.

    You may not like what they have to say, but know this. They are just as devoted to scripture and their God as you are and may even see women in a more favorable light than you do.
     
    #42 Christos doulos, Jan 4, 2012
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  3. Crabtownboy

    Crabtownboy Well-Known Member
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    Why not? Wasn't it accepted as canon for centuries.

    Or why not any of the other canons?

    You statement is a statement of faith ... unprovable but a statement of faith.

    Just curious, why not any of the others? They are as provable or unprovable as the one you and I follow.
     
  4. Crabtownboy

    Crabtownboy Well-Known Member
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    I do not believe I mentioned "apostolic succession". By the way I agree with you.
     
  5. Christos doulos

    Christos doulos New Member

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    Ok my friend. I am confused. Were you not speculating that someone else could be an apostle?
     
  6. Amy.G

    Amy.G New Member

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    None of that has a thing to do with authority in the church!
     
  7. Crabtownboy

    Crabtownboy Well-Known Member
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    I was saying that there are those who believe that Junia, a woman, was an apostle. There is no doubt she was a committed Christian and held in very high regard by Paul. She was even in jail as a prisoner at one time.

    The key to this verse is how "among the apostles, which I put in bold is interpreted. The word among may mean:

    1. as one of the apostles
    2. as known by other apostles

    English creates a problem here as either meaning can be used. I do not know what the Greek phrase is in this verse. However, reputable scholars have written that Junia was definitely a woman and may well have been an apostle.

    We do not have original texts, much the pity. There are those who say that many contributions by women were edited out of the texts to be more politically or socially correct for those times. I do not have a background to make a definitive statement, but I would not be surprised that it is true. What is the miracle is the consistency we find in thousands of manuscripts, though there are some differences.

    The oldest extant manuscript gives a woman’s name, Julia. Some have tried to explain this away by saying it was an error by the scribe. I think that argument is very suspect.

    _________________________________________________________________________________________________

    Concerning the discussion on contempt of the Bible ... I do not believe anyone on the BB has contempt for the Bible. But differing interpretations is another matter. We must never be so hardened in our views that we cannot change if a deeper truth is revealed.

     
    #47 Crabtownboy, Jan 4, 2012
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  8. Amy.G

    Amy.G New Member

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    LINK
     
  9. Crabtownboy

    Crabtownboy Well-Known Member
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    Some translations translate Junia as Junias. Junias is masculine, but no where in ancient history does the name Junias appear in any other document for several hundred years. This is explained in detail in the book, The Lost Apostle: Searching for the Truth About Junia by Rena Pederson. In other words, the translation Junias is most likely done to try to strengthen an already existing belief that women played no important parts, especially as leaders or apostles.

    Junia is definitely a female name. Many believe she was the wife of Andronicus.

    As I have said previously, never reject wisdom or truth regardless of who brings either to you.

    Here are a number of translations:

     
    #49 Crabtownboy, Jan 4, 2012
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  10. mandym

    mandym New Member

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    Exactly but then should that really have to be explained? I suppose so when you are trying to stand on a house of cards.
     
  11. mandym

    mandym New Member

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    Talk about the extreme far left it doesn't get any crazier than this.
     
  12. Michael Wrenn

    Michael Wrenn New Member

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    I don't know what you're talking about, and neither do you!

    It's quite funny to me how those opposed to women's ordination or leadership always cast this as a liberal vs. conservative issue. Nothing could be further from the truth. The very conservative holiness and pentecostal bodies have always approved of and accepted women in leadership positions, including ordained clergy.
     
  13. Michael Wrenn

    Michael Wrenn New Member

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    I hope and believe there will come a day when those Baptists and others who have opposed women in leadership will realize that they have supported one of the saddest and most regrettable chapters in church history.

    It is very sad that young women in these kinds of churches who may have gifts and a calling are told by men that they most certainly do not have this calling because they are not qualified for leadership in the church based on their being born female.
     
  14. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
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    That day will never come because it's a Biblical stance.

    No one says that they are not qualified to be in leadership - just the particular leadership role of pastor and/or teacher of men is not to be taken by women.

    We have a large church staff and larger ministry staff at our church. There are MANY women in leadership positions - but all under Biblical guidelines. None are in authority over men, and none teach men. However, our women have very important roles and this church would never be able to function without them. And I'm not saying that they are just secretaries either.
     
  15. Michael Wrenn

    Michael Wrenn New Member

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    A Biblical stance -- just like the support of slavery was once considered, huh?
     
  16. mandym

    mandym New Member

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    See now you have convinced everyone to join your view with your false comparison. :rolleyes:
     
  17. Christos doulos

    Christos doulos New Member

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    My friend. You are quite right that there were those who used the bible to support slavery, but they twisted scripture; practicing bad hermeneutics.

    Please show where we have twisted scripture or practiced bad hermeneutics, because in the end scripture is all that matters.
     
    #57 Christos doulos, Jan 5, 2012
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  18. Michael Wrenn

    Michael Wrenn New Member

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    That's already been shown.

    But I must tell you that I like the respectful way you post. I can have a meaningful discussion with folks like you.

    Thanks!
     
  19. jaigner

    jaigner Active Member

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    I wouldn't be so sure. We can argue if it's a false comparison, but many Baptists, believed slavery, as well as segregation, were biblical, and they believed it with all the same fervor with which you hold your beliefs. That number is likely very small now, even when the Southern Baptists were led by a bunch of arrogant and racist men not half a century ago.

    Again, I can't say for certain that everyone will, but I would bet the majority of Baptist strands will have amended their positions in a generation or two.

    My parent's SBC generation is rapidly dying out. The SBC folks my age are getting fed up and leaving to the neo-reformed crowd or emergents. It's changing faster than you know.

    Every generation has its blind spots. That doesn't excuse them, but it will give an explanation when, 100 years from now, Baptists will wonder what the heck we were thinking.
     
  20. Michael Wrenn

    Michael Wrenn New Member

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    I feel sorry for the women living now who have to suffer the inability to follow their gifts and calling.
     
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