Words of Christ vs Words of God

you "claim" the answer to the above for you is "no".

Please clarify --

Are you arguing that "breaking the commandment is KEEPING the commandments as defined by these texts??"

How do you see "breaking the commandments" as satisfying the instruction John gives ??

I Jn 2:3-4
3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

 

oops! Sorry - this fell off my page-1 list.

Is this where we define what "keeping God's commandments" is??

Or are you inserting the idea into Romans 3 that "All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God" SHOULD be retranslated as "All have sinned and faile to keep God's commandments now matter how they are defined"??

Until you explain that - I will simply agree with the text of Romans 3 "All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God"

We see him say it in 1John 2:2 and we see him mention them again in John 14 "IF you Love Me KEEP My commandments".

John loves to keep saying that -

You seem love to say "God's people keep breaking His commandments no matter what".

In Christ,

Bob

 

1 Cor 14 -

37 [b]If anyone thinks he is a prophet or spiritual, let him recognize that the things which I write to you are the Lord's commandment.[/b]
38 But if anyone does not recognize this, he is not recognized.

In the non-stop rebellion model that you have -- do we ignore Paul in 1Cor 14 as well as Christ in John 14 and John in 1John 2?

 

You say you KNOW that you BREAK God's commandments every day.

Then you ask what they ARE???

How can you KNOW that you are breaking them in that case???

Simple question for you -- Should Christians READ and OBEY these NT texts???

I Jn 2:3-4
3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1 Cor 14 -
37 [b]If anyone thinks he is a prophet or spiritual, let him recognize that the things which I write to you are the Lord's commandment.[/b]
38 But if anyone does not recognize this, he is not recognized.


I Jn 5:2-3
2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.


Rev 14:12
12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Rev 22:14
14[b] Blessed are they that do his commandments,[/b] that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

1 Corinthians 7:19
Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but what matters is the keeping of the commandments of God.

Rom 3
31 Do we then nullify the Law through faith? May it never be! On the contrary, we establish the Law.

Matt 19:17 17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

John 15:10-11 10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
11 These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full.

John 14:15 (quoting from the 10 commandments) “IF you love Me Keep My commandments”

If not - WHICH texts should we ignore?

In Christ,

Bob

 

Steaver asks --

Steaver is now reminded that HE asked --

 

1 John 3:4 Sin is breaking God's Law -- "sin is transgression of the Law" KJV

Romans 7 - God's Law DEFINES what sin is.

That is the easy part sir.

in Christ,

Bob

 

Steaver said

Easy -- obey instead of rebelling against what God has said in His Word.

Is there anything confusing about what the authors have stated? WHERE is the confusion???

in Christ,

Bob

 

Would you prefer that Christ had said
"IF you Love Me continue to rebel against what I have said and pretend you don't understand that this is wrong".

"IF you Love Me say that you are in obedience while continuing to disregard My Word"

Would that work better?

How about this

"IF you Love Me -- claim forgiveness as you disregard My Word"??

"NOT everyone who SAYS Lord Lord will enter the Kingdom of heaven but he who DOES the Will of My Father... by their FRUITS you SHALL know them" Matt 7.

It is clear that false pretenses alone will not suffice for us -- we must genuinely follow "WALK as Christ WALKED".

John points out that there are MANY ways to falsely claim to KNOW Christ while NOT walking as Christ walked.

But think about it for a second -- IF you are doomed to non-stop transgression and LYING is also another part of God's Law that can't be fully obeyed then when John points out that they are liars who CLAIM to know Christ and yet do NOT walk as He walked -- well what's one more transgression??

My argument is not that one must walk a sinless path to be a Christian - my argument is that the Bible does NOT allow for a "Law of God does not concern me" approach to the Gospel. YET MANY claim to try to get into heaven while doing just that!!

in Christ,

Bob

 

On the contrary - YOU are doing a lot of dancing and squirming here.

I on the other hand brought up a topic about the Words of CHRIST vs the Word of GOD -- not "the Sabbath".

YOU redirected this into a referrendum on the Commandments of God - so I simply point out the strong affirming position we find in the NT for God's Commandments.

THEN YOU spin this into an argument of the form "yes but I don't like Christ's Seventh-day Sabbath so does that make me a bad person".

YOU are the one that is bringing this down to a focus on Christ's Seventh-day Memorial of HIS creative work as the CREATOR of mankind - not me..

I was just pointing to the strong "AFFIRMING" position of the NT writers when it comes to the COMMANDMENTS OF GOD - in response to your "please let me continue break the commandmnts with impunity" style of argument.

It is ONE thing to to say "Coveting is sin and I am trying not to covet but sometimes I DO"... It is ANOTHER thing to say "Images and Idols in worship are wrong according to the Ten Commandemnts but I Don't CARE - I like using them in worship ANYWAY... does that make me a bad person"?

The bottom line is that the direction you are taking this discussion does not say anything flattering about your goal.

In Christ,

Bob

 

Matt 7 condemns the doctrine of those who say "it is ok to break God's Law -- go ahead and don't give it a second thought" in Matt 6 Christ makes the point that those who teach others to break God's Law are called LEAST in the kingdom of heaven.

But this does not say that those who are intent on OBEDIENCE to God - and yet stumble in some point are "going to hell for not being perfect" -- which is the false argument you keep trying to make against the Bible position of honoring God's Word and keeping God's Commandments.

"IF you Love Me KEEP My Commandments" was a PRE-cross AND A POST-CRoss statement from God to man!!

In Matt 7 Christ is talking to the TRUE believers in the ONE TRUE God - including his OWN disciples.

He said TO THEM - "NOT everyone who SAYS LORD LORD will enter the kingdom of heaven but he who DOES THE WILL of My Father".

Paul says the SAME thing in Romans 2 as HE writes to the CHRISTIAN Church "it is not the HEARERS of the Law that are just but the DOERS of the LAW WILL be JUSTIFIED" Romans 2:13.

Why fight this teaching of scripture in your endless pursuit of ways to condone breaking the commandments "intentionally".

He who breaks one - breaks them all -- James 2.

I have not made that argument - you did.

You claim this for your own case - but I do not claim that people in general see themselves as you do -- deliberately ignoring and breaking God's Commandments.

I think most people see themselves as trying to honor God's Commandments and at times failing.

My argument in oppostion to your posts is that the BIBLE shows very STRONG statements in support of God's Commandments and by CONTRAST your response to those texts is to QUESTION in the form of "truth -- what is truth" ... "Commandments what are commandments" .... "obey what is obey - what if I don't obey sometimes..."

in Christ,

Bob

 

In a word... no I don't remember doing that at all. Do you happen to have an actual quote of ME???

In Christ,

Bob

 

hey - just out of curiosity -- does this sound familiar to you??

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For all of our differences most of us would agree that God the Son is in fact Jesus Christ and that God the Father - are together with God the Holy Spirit - the "God of the Bible".

The Bible does not present them as "three God's whose words conflict with each other". The Bible does not support the notion of "following the Word of the Holy Spirit but not the Word of God the Father".

It is easy to see that all such division and distinction is opposed to the Bible.

But what about in the case of Christ?

When Christ argues (pre-cross) that "the Father and I are ONE" and that "I do not speak on my own - my Words are the Father's Words" is He claiming that the words of scripture and the Words of Christ are in fact one seamless continuous whole - or can we contrast HIS words vs God's Words so that one replaces/contradicts/voids/abolishes/superceeds the other?


John 12
47 ""If anyone hears My sayings and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world.
48 "" He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day.
49 "" For I did not speak on My own initiative, but the Father Himself who sent Me has given Me a commandment as to what to say and what to speak.
50 ""I know that His commandment is eternal life; therefore the things I speak, I speak just as the Father has told Me.''

What say you?

In Christ,

Bob