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Would Both Scofield/Ryrie Been Seen as Calvinist Bibles?

Discussion in 'Bible Versions & Translations' started by JesusFan, Nov 22, 2011.

  1. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    again, you taking the "presby" view of what calvinism entails, as you would buy into the entire package that it comes with, taking all aspects of it, while those of us who take the "Baptist" view would see DoG as way to outline Grace, but would be refusing all the rest of the "stuff" that would come with it!

    A "strict" cal would not be even reformed Baptist, as would be taking covenant view of infant baptism!
     
  2. Jerome

    Jerome Well-Known Member
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    Come on JF, if someone had forsaken the Baptist church for Presbyterianism or Independency they wouldn't be posting in this Baptist-Only forum, now would they?
     
  3. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    NOT saying that he is not a baptist, just was disagreeing with the assertion that its either "accept ALL tenants " held by system of Calvinism, not just DoG, or take not of it!
     
  4. glfredrick

    glfredrick New Member

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    There is no Covenent theology of the entire calvinism system.

    Calvinism is specific to soteriology. You are mistaking it for a worldview or something.

    After all the debate, information shared, etc., that this error is still made is unconscionable. At least if you are going to argue the point, learn what it is...

    Let's start with the ordo salutis:

    (SEE NEXT)
     
  5. glfredrick

    glfredrick New Member

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    And another article from the same source on the Order of God's Decrees:

    (SEE NEXT)
     
  6. glfredrick

    glfredrick New Member

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    No charge for the theology lesson. Test will be on Friday. :love2:
     
  7. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    i was the one that was argueing for calvinism being the 'stricter" view, of it just referring primarily to the DoG, of Sotierology proper...
    Ruiz was bringing into the discussion idea that a "real cal" would be accepting all aspects/tenants of it, which I don't see any other aspects to it to believe in!
     
  8. Ruiz

    Ruiz New Member

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    Jesus,

    You make allegations without any supporting material; you do not even pretend to support your argument with any evidence. So, let me ask you this question, how is the Analogy of Faith distinctly Presbyterian? This is the issue I brought up, but you seem to believe it is Presbyterian and not Baptistic. I would like to know how this is Presbyterian. If you like, I can provide a number of Baptist theologians in history who uphold the Analogy of Faith.

    Finally, as a person who holds to the viewpoint and having studied personally and by reading our writing, I suspect I know our belief much more than you. This has been a great part of my life and the well from which I drink. While there may be an intramural debate on these issues, the theologians I know support my viewpoint, both Baptist and other theologians.
     
  9. Ruiz

    Ruiz New Member

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    I think this quote hits the nail on the head. Your misunderstanding of the system and lack of understanding of the entirety gives you a warped view of the system. I can reference several books for you to read so to understand that reformed theology is much more than 5 points of soteriology. Believe it or not, only since the 20th Century has TULIP been used as a measuring stick for those who are and are not Reformed. This recent occurrence has been condemned by a number of theologians who, while they agree with the five points, see them as inadequate.

    If you don't see the system, you are not alone; however, you also don't completely understand the system.
     
  10. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    The 'system" though is about how /why/how God saves any of us, how the Bible addresses Sotierology...

    ANYTHING else being considered would mean one is reformed cal, while I would be one who takes DoG as my "model" to explain salvation..No More, No less!
     
  11. Ruiz

    Ruiz New Member

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    The system is not about how and why God saves us. Would you deny that the 5 Solas of the Reformation are any less Reformed? While much of it deals with soteriology, a historic study shows the 5 Solas are much more than soteriology. As well, as noted before, the Analogy of Faith is not dealing directly with Soteriology, but it has been an acceptable and intrinsic part to understanding Calvinism since day 1.
     
  12. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    Still not understanding just WHY one would have to accept all the tenants of calvinism, as the DoG explains from the biblical model means/method God uses to save any of us, and aren't there those holding to that who are "Not reformed" as reagrding rest of their doctrinal beliefs!
     
  13. Ruiz

    Ruiz New Member

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    I have given an example that differentiates between the dispensational and non-dispensational viewpoints as being the Analogy of Faith. Essentially, there are presuppositional beliefs to soteriology like the the Analogy of Faith, that is mandated to get to the Soteriological viewpoint.. The Five Solas of the Reformation are additional issues, specifically Sola Scriptura and Soli Deo Gloria. These help us get to the Soteriology, not the other way around. Another would be God's complete Sovereignty in all issues, without this presupposition you cannot have Reformed Theology. Classical Dispensationalists must necessarily deny this view as well. Thus, as I pointed out before, how can the cross have been both an accident and God be completely Sovereign? Those are contradictory.

    Thus, if one holds to classical dispensationalism, they cannot hold to the analogy of Faith. The Analogy of Faith cannot be rejected and still hold to the Soteriological Structure, it is a presupposition.
     
    #33 Ruiz, Nov 25, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 25, 2011
  14. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    James Montgomery Boice did not hold to strictlly cal in all of His scriptual viewpoints did he? Did Dr Grudem/erickson?
     
  15. Ruiz

    Ruiz New Member

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    In the issues mentioned, Boice agreed to both the Analogy of Faith and God's Sovereignty as does Grudem. I am not familiar enough with Erickson to note that issue. There can be disagreements on some issues, but the main presuppositional issues must be maintained.
     
  16. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    Please reaffirm to me what you exactly mean when you use "analogy of faith/Gods sovereignty"?
     
  17. Robert Snow

    Robert Snow New Member

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    I believe you don't have a clue what you are talking about. Both Scofield and Ryrie are two of the best! Of course, if someone is against Dispensationalism they have a right to be wrong!
     
  18. Robert Snow

    Robert Snow New Member

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    Another reason I despise Calvinism, at least the Calvinism I see espoused by people like Luke2427 or Pinoybaptist!
     
  19. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    And how would you feel if someone would say the following:

    "Another reason I despise semi-Pelagianism,at least the semi-Pelagianism I see espoused by people like Robert Snow,Winman and Van!"
     
  20. Ruiz

    Ruiz New Member

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    What don't I have a clue about? I didn't attack their character, rather I merely noted some facts about their system. So, tell me where I am wrong. Did not deny the Analogy of Faith? Did they not hold to a strong dispensational view? Where am I wrong?
     
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