Would you feel threatened?

Trotter, I would say that a couple years ago I might have felt threatened. But at my current church I have several serious minded students of God's Word and do not hesitate doing exactly what you stated you and your wife do. They will come to me and ask for Scripture to support what is said/taught. I now look at it as a great thing and I am very happy there are serious students in our midst. It has made me a better pastor and a better student of God's Word!

 

I think it comes down to three things. First, the spirit in which you ask. My brother earned his doctorate from Princton Theological Seminary and he is one of the most humble men I know. He always finds something to compliment on about every pastor I see him meet. (The more scripture we know, I think the more of Christ spirit we should exhibit.Second, the principal of respect for authority should be honored. Thirdly, if you really know the scripture well, then join hands and hearts with the pastor and offer to teach a class.Tell him you want to help him equip the body and let him pray with you and your wife about where you could best help.

 

I agree w/ Dr. Bob that people can be disruptive about it.

However I have seen pastors preach from the pulpit that if I am wrong it is your duty to bring it to my attention. When this is done and the man of God is questioned my experience has been defensiveness. We should be able to discuss the scriptures if we do not understand what pastor meant. Not to cause a problem but to gain understanding. Unfortunately human nature puts him on the defensive more times than not.

 

The "Trotter" says,

"Why are so many intimidated by us????"

Here's what I do---in my study of particular topics---I do my best to "out study" the Sheep!!! If you know what I mean??

I rehearse, in my study, particular questions that the "sheep" probably will raise! In my study I ask the question---"What question could the smartest sheep ask about this topic??"---then I try to include that in my presentation.

I try to cover "all bases"---make sure that all the boards are "nailed down" before starting the class----believe me---I've been around long enough to know when a person is acting like a "know-it-all" and when a person is asking question because he flat out does not know and wants to know!!!

Blackbird

 

Try having university students as regular attendees in your congregation. Some of my students attended my church, and they could be quite a challenge,as Dr. Bob prolly knows.

Don't be afraid to say "I don't know" cos truth is, we don't have all the answers. Tell them you will look into it and be sure you do.

In class, I often reminded the students that they may have all the answers, but I still mark the papers. They got the point.

Never allow anyone to intimidate you. Remember you are the one called to pastor and not them...be a pastor and not a know-it-all.

Cheers,

Jim

 

For a while, we had a family attending that the husband went to seminary (where we did but years before) and got an MDiv, and now is working on a PhD in oral communication. THAT's intimidating. He now is pastoring a church not far from here. But he was so nice and down to earth. He was also intimidated when dh asked him to preach. But hey, iron sharpens iron.

 

I pastor a church where the former pastor still attends every service. He pastored here for 25 years prior to my being called as pastor 5 years ago. I simply preach and teach what the Lord lays on my heart and leave it at that. There is no intimidation whatsoever.

If I didn't have a Scripture to back up what I am teaching/preaching, then I shouldn't be teaching/preaching in the first place.

Trotter, remember that God created us all uniquely different from one another. Be careful not to insist that all preacher or teachers must meet your expectations; it should be enough if they meet God’s expectations.

 

Trotter,

I have no idea ... You do not tell us ANYTHING about it.

First: I do not know if you are teaching heresy or disrupting. Or, [Second] if you are steel sharpening steel.

If it is the first, I will protect the flock from you.

If you are the second, I will enjoy the sharpening.

but, if you quote

I must tell you that you are reading the wrong book! God's Word is the Bible.

 

I agree with Dr. Bob on this one. If the individual comes with a good attitude, I appreciate his willingness to approach me. My assistant and I don't agree on everything and he will come to me and we will discuss an issue. There have been times, I have come to his position. Some times, he comes to mine, and sometimes we agree to disagree. My problem is with those who come with a divisive attitude. They are ought to prove the pastor wrong and usually try to do it publicly.

 

Trotter,

Let say first that pastors need to be well trained. I recommend a good theological education, which means seminary if possible. Knowing what you believe helps a pastor not to be easily intimidated by someone else who knows the Word.

Being close to a bible college we had college professors under our ministry. Also I have had numerous opportunities to speak before other preachers including those who had much more education that I did. I tried to keep my focus on the fact that my message was the word of God and my enabler was the Holy Spirit. I think I can honestly say that your proposed situation would not bother me at all.

In my current ministry I am preaching in many churches, and I try to encourage pastors and make them feel comfortable with my ministry. There is no reason for a preacher to be intimidated by another believer or another preacher.

 

Trotter,

My job as the leader is three fold.

I need to get the right people on the bus. I need to get the people on the bus in the right seats. And I need to get the wrong people off the bus.

As I read your posts, I hear a person who doesn't really enjoy following leadership and yet you don't really want to lead yourself.

My experience is you can never be a good leader until you understand what it takes to be a good follower.

In your case where it seems you have the "credentials" to be a leader or pastor yourself but for some reason you are not in the arena, the painful arena of leadership!

If you were in my church and you didn't seem to want to get behind me as the leader and more importantly our mission, I would encourage you to get off the bus and get into the arena of leadership yourself.

And I wouldn't bet on your success because if you can't follow well, you can't lead well.

 

I always hope that my teaching would prompt people to go deeper and ask indepth questions. I welcome those times I can sit with people and discuss the Scripture.

I have also had those who had an agenda and try to take over the class with their questions. Good preparation and sound biblical teaching usually takes care of such individuals and their attempts.

Bro Tony

 

Trotter,

I understand what you are saying. And I don't want to defend pastors and churches that may not be worthy of a defense as I don't know the particular churches and/or leaders in your area of the country.

I would only encourage you to make sure you have turned over every rock in your area looking for a church and a leader that you can get behind enthusiastically. Just remember noone is perfect. I'm sure you are aware of that.

If you cannot find a church in your area that meets those requirements. You need to step into the arena and feel what it is like to try to lead and create a church that is "healthy." It is the most difficult task in the world and sometimes the best thing for someone such as yourself is to feel how difficult it is. It does create compassion for other men trying to lead churches.

If you don't want to step into the arena or dont' feel qualified, then I would search the country for the church and leader that you most respect and move there. It is that important in my opinion.

And if you search the country and can't find that great church and leader you respect, then we are back to my previous entry. You should search your heart to see if being a good follower is actually a spiritual problem for you.

And I hear you on the difficulty of finding someone who will mentor you. My experiences have been it is difficult. But one thing I have worked on is being the type of person that recieves investment. I need to take what I can from each person understanding that they won't be perfect. And God is the only one that will invest in me and believe in me to the degree that I would like. So I focus on Him and my mission and work every day to improve in my understanding of Scripture and my own ability to lead.

Just my thoughts...I wish you well.

Just so you know where I am coming from in philosophy of ministry...if I were to move to a church in the country it would be Andy Stanley's church in Atlanta. www.northpoint.org I think he is a phenominal leader who preaches in a way that feeds veterans but reaches seekers.