Featured Ye must be born again 2

steaver

No Paul is not confused, Paul is correct. Paul did not write that believing was not a work ! Believing is a work, it is something man does with his mind !

 

dhk

Yes I have and you rejected it, so I will not explain it again here, this is about the New Birth. Now, I have showed that believing is a work, and nothing you have provided denies that. Rom 4:4-5 does not deny that.

You have not provided one scripture that states Faith or Believing is not a work. Faith and Believing are acts of obedience, something man does !

 

dhk

This thread is about the New Birth. I have extensively made comments on Justification in other threada I have began, and you have opposed every last one of them, and comments have been made on Rom 4 !

 

steaver

The word work is the greek word ergon and means:

business, employment, that which any one is occupied

a) that which one undertakes to do, enterprise, undertaking

2) any product whatever, any thing accomplished by hand, art, industry, or mind

3) an act, deed, thing done: the idea of working is emphasised in opp. to that which is less than work

Now is Believing an act ? Yes, is it a deed ? Yes, is it a thing done ? Yes. Is it something accomplished by the mind ? Yes !

 

Believing is the same as Faith, Faith is the Noun form, Believing is the verb form. In Eph 2:8 The word faith is pistis and means:

conviction of the truth of anything, belief; in the NT of a conviction or belief respecting man's relationship to God and divine things, generally with the included idea of trust and holy fervour born of faith and joined with it

a) relating to God

1) the conviction that God exists and is the creator and ruler of all things, the provider and bestower of eternal salvation through Christ

b) relating to Christ

1) a strong and welcome conviction or belief that Jesus is the Messiah, through whom we obtain eternal salvation in the kingdom of God

c) the religious beliefs of Christians

d) belief with the predominate idea of trust (or confidence) whether in God or in Christ, springing from faith in the same

2) fidelity, faithfulness

a) the character of one who can be relied on

The word is used in 2 Thess 2:13

13But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

pistis is from the root word the verb peithō which means:


persuade

a) to persuade, i.e. to induce one by words to believe

b) to make friends of, to win one's favour, gain one's good will, or to seek to win one, strive to please one

c) to tranquillise

d) to persuade unto i.e. move or induce one to persuasion to do something

2) be persuaded

a) to be persuaded, to suffer one's self to be persuaded; to be induced to believe: to have faith: in a thing

1) to believe

2) to be persuaded of a thing concerning a person

b) to listen to, obey, yield to, comply with

3) to trust, have confidence, be confident

One obeys the Truth, that is Faith

Gal 3:1

1O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?

Faith is a obedience resulting from persuasion Heb 11:8

By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.

The obedience OF Faith Rom 16:26

But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

Believing the Gospel is same as obeying the Gospel Rom 10:16

But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?

You can deny it all you want, Faith, Believing is man doing something, obedience.

If you are saved because of your obedience, thats works ! And it contradicts Rom 5:19 which says:

19For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

The Elect are made Righteous solely by the Obedience of One, Christ ! You add to that your obedience, its a false gospel ! And Faith or believing is man's obedience !

 

steaver

I am witnessing to scripture that by definition believing is a work of the mind. You state that you are saved because you believed. That plainly stating you are saved by simething you done. Thats works. You deny salvation by Grace through Faith. Grace and Works cannot mix Rom 11:6

6And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

 

bib

God has well equipped me !

I already know that !

The noun faith can be translated faith or faithfulness. Thats not the point of this thread, neith does it nullify the fact that believing is a work. Thats what I mean when I said a while back, you just like to show off with the greek, to hear yourself talk so to be speak ! That comment was not even relevant !

 

bib

No, The Gift is New Life, that is what the Elect receive as a Gift James 1:17-18

17Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above[Born from above], and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.

18Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

However, that New Creation believes, whic is a work, an action done, a deed.

James 1:25

25But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

It's Faith which issues into Faithfulness, for the Just shall live by his Faith ! That is, from the point of time of conversion when they believe, they shall never draw back, but remain faithful !

 

Jn 3:3-5

3Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

4Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

5Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

After New Birth, a Birth into the Spiritual Kingdom of God, Being born of the Spirit,now in possession of Spiritual Life, which now means in possession of Spiritual Eyes, Ears, and Heart to understand Spiritually. It is now the Elect are in a condition to do spiritually the commands of God and His Kingdom, to Repent, to Believe the Gospel, to see the Son and Believe on Him Jn 6:40

40And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Yes, the seeing and Believing are Spiritual !

 

bib

God gives the unbelieving and Spiritually dead elect a new Life they had in Christ. Christ's Resuurection from the Dead begets them again 1 Pet 1:3

3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

Thats when the elect are born out of Incorruptible seed 1 Pet 1:23

23Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

The begotten us again in 1 Pet 1:3 is the same word as the born again in 1 Pet 1:23

Thats how the Elect Believe the Gospel after being born out of incorruptible seed !

I can tell you have no spiritual understanding whatsoever !