You may know you are saved, because God says so in His Word.

Hello GH,

Sometimes All That Is Necessary To Hear Is The Soft Words From A Friend.

When Its Needed The Most...

Thank You

Me2

 

Thanks Diane

I have a couple of questions that I'd really like you to address: if 'eternal' relates only to God, then isn't this all you've done - you've cast doubt on anyone's eternal life, whether eternal happiness or otherwise?

You certainly haven't moved closer to universalism with that, I'd say - although, to be fair, I don't think you've used that to argue universal salvation and eternal life for all.

Anyway, where do you go for assurance that believers (or all people) will live for ever in heaven rather than being a nice thought in God's head forever, for example?

(If you do )

Helen/AITB

 

Oh Nooooooo!!!

His Spirit gives witness to our spirit.

The Lord God the Holy Spirit is able.

Have a nice day, sis.

Diane

 

You too!

Ok, so you have the witness of the Holy Spirit.

But it's not unreasonable, is it, to ask you for a textual reason for assurance? For verses? Since we are talking about the text...

But I know you're probably at work

Helen/AITB

 

GH,

You can repeat the half truths all you want, but that isn't going to make them any more true than the first time you posted them.

 

Oh Helen - more scripture? Clint, our dear moderator reprimanded me when I cut and pasted several hundred sovereignty scriptures.

I have more, much more to post.

But really, when it it enough? The oil (Spirit) illuminates the lamp (word).

Blessings to you, Diane

 

Oh Helen - more scripture? Clint, our dear moderator reprimanded me when I cut and pasted several hundred sovereignty scriptures.

Perhaps it would be more useful to talk about the scriptures one at a time and put them into context.

 

I think he wanted you explain why you were posting each Scripture, to make it more meaningful. And perhaps to do just a few at a time...

I wasn't looking for a whole list. Just one or two key ones and why they don't fail the 'eternal doesn't mean eternal human existence' test.

I like your faith; but see, some of us need verses. Just a few

Helen/AITB

p.s. Tuor, I just saw that you already said essentially the same as me about Clint's comment...well, perhaps great minds think alike!

[ September 19, 2002, 12:23 PM: Message edited by: AITB ]

 

Dear Tuor and Helen,

I do what I can do to the best of my abilities with the light that has been given to me.

I'm learning how to share my faith and what I believe through the written word (I'm better in a one on one chat)

- so thank you for your comments - I'll work on my approach. I guess we all need a little fine-tuning every now and then.

Peace, Diane

 

Hi, I just wanted to see if I am posting correctly.

 

Dear Helen,

You wrote:

I have a couple of questions that I'd really like you to address: if 'eternal' relates only to God, then isn't this all you've done - you've cast doubt on anyone's eternal life, whether eternal happiness or otherwise?

I reply:

God IS eternal life. Jesus said I and the Father are one. We are in Christ, therefore we have HIS eternal life and this by virture of His finished work on the cross.

You wrote:

....(sorry bad cut job) universalism with that, I'd say - although, to be fair, I don't think you've used that to argue universal salvation and eternal life for all.

I reply:

Yes, that's right. God has chosen some to KNOW this eternal life NOW. Some tomorrow, some the day after that, and so on and so. That's why we preach the Good News. So that those who have been chosen to KNOW Him now will believe and have God's eternal life. It's His work and His calling. We who know this are the ecclesia - chosen before the foundation of the world.

I embraced His choosing me because I knew that I didn't have a choice. From one moment until the next, in the twinkling of an eye - I believed. I didn't ask for it. I wasn't seeking it. It was given to me. That's my experience. Much like Paul's without the murder in my heart (well sort of). Paul knew he was chosen after Christ revealed Himself to him. He hated Christ and His followers. Instantaneous love in a flash was poured out on him.......in a flash he was changed.

You wrote:

Anyway, where do you go for assurance that believers (or all people) will live for ever in heaven rather than being a nice thought in God's head forever, for example?

I reply:

Those who God has not chosen are ignoble vessels - I guess you could say are chosen but not for the same use as those who know God. Vessels of wrath as it says in the scripture. If you have a moment, read Romans and in particular chapter 5 - Paul says at least four times that all died in Adam, all made alive in Christ. That was for me powerful proof of the reconciliation of all. Four times in one chapter as well as elsewhere. This came to me in the stillness of my heart. I did not learn it from some website or from a preacher or from a book. I knew no one else who believed it. Thus began further study and search for the truth of it in the scripture. Which I still seek to share with others properly.

Jesus said the Kingdom of God is within you. Life in Christ is for now not for some time in the future.....if you're good enough to get there. As you know, we're saved by grace. By God's mercy not by our own works. I see this in the scriptures. But what of those vessels of wrath? NOT chosen by God. Did they ASK not to be chosen? Did they have a choice......before the foundations of the earth were laid?

If I choose Him then my salvation depends on me. Wretched woman that I am, who will deliver me from this body of death? Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ. I know that I didn't choose Him.

I was Calvinistic in my beliefs before believing in UR. I knew I was chosen. But those unchosen ones tugged at my heart. It just didn't stack up to the love that was given me.

God has a plan for those vessels of wrath. His creation which HE called good. I believe the blood of Christ covers a multitude of sins.

Ah, those who have been forgiven much, love much. The last shall be first - I don't mind being last. This elder sister won't mind at if the prodigal gets in first. This first hireling won't beef if the newly hired get the same pay as I. I rejoice in it! I say, "Come."

Peace, Diane

 

Hi Diane -

Even if you just posted the chapter and verse reference and we could look them up, or if your dealing with a specific version of the Bible you could link us over to Gospelcom.net. My point was that the post was so long. People often skip posts that are taller than their monitor screen and I have alredy worn out one scroll mouse since joining the board.

No offense intended.

- Clint

 

Dear Clint,

No offense taken, brother. And thank you for your explanation.

BTW, I meant the "dear moderator" remark. You guys have a tough job and I appreciate your graciousness in particular.

Diane

 

I understand...thanks for your comments. They help me see where you're coming from. I had a time when I was trying to find universalism in the Bible because I so wanted people not to go to hell...at that time I went to the same Scriptures and had very similar thoughts to those you are sharing.

So I probably understand better than most people here.

I certainly would be happy to find out that God was able to save everyone after all...

Did you know there's a universalist board on CARM? Or, there used to be, anyway. There are a few Christian universalists there.

AITB

 

Hi Helen,

I'll think about how to share my belief in the universal reconciliation of all people with you from the scripture. But as I said above, and I know you believe this as well, God the Holy Spirit is the Revealer. So be looking for some surprises coming you way. Willingness to see is a pre-requisite, I believe.

My experience with CARM is that they unmercifully put down believers in the glorious gospel of Jesus Christ for all mankind. If they've opened up a new forum there to discuss this beautiful truth, I hope it is done with a pure heart flowing with love. To be honest though, I've met more than a few UR believers who are just as unmerciful because, imo, they cling to dogmatism without relying on the Spirit of grace to speak through them. They are both sides of the same coin. Maybe I'll check it out.

Bye for now, Diane

 

To be honest, I didn't have a great experience at CARM...so I'm not necessarily recommending it.

I do think there were a few decent URs there, though...I was just thinking, if you wanted to meet a few others...

love in Jesus
Helen

 

Btw, Diane, you might want to

read this thread

even if you don't generally venture onto the Calvinism/Arminism board...

Helen/AITB

 

Hiya Helen, and bless your kind heart.

I was banned from the Cal/Arm board as a heretic (unorthodox beliefs). LOL......so I don't go there.

I have met some UR people who post at CARM (the sweet ones), but thank you again for your kind thoughts.

I'm at work, of course, so I can't stay on now(never boring here - not enough hours in the day) - but I want to tell you about how the "love chapter" in 1 Cor. was pivotal in my coming to belive in the glorious gospel of Jesus Christ.

Talk to you later (if you still want to), Diane

 

Dear Helen,

I just took a quick read at the link you posted. Oh my goodness - the endless debate of it! LOL

What YOU said dear sister is exactly my experience - the jump from Cal. to UR. I hope to discuss this soon.

BTW, it made me happy to read your words. Can't explain it - it just did. No scripture to back it up. (chuckling)

Diane

 

See, I told ya I understood!

Helen/AITB