Your church and the rapture...

BB, I groan when I see other pretribbers using that text as a rapture passage. The context isn't talking about the rapture at all.

Ed is just following the system instead of Scripture.

 

Yep. Here's another place where we agree.

While this passage is very difficult (at least for me), the fact that it is not the rapture is plain for those who will put down their charts and read it in context.

Thanks.

 

God bless you, brother Reformed Baptists. We need all
the tolerance we can get

 

Comparative timelines:

Pretrib pre-mill outline of time forward:

0. church age continues <-- you are here
1. rapture/resurrection
2. Tribulation time
3. Second Advent of Jesus event
4. literal MK=millinnial kingdom
5. new heaven & new earth

Postrib pre-mill outline:

0. church age continues <-- you are here
2. Tribulation time
1.3. Second Advent of Jesus event
(this is one event with the rapture/resurrection)
4. literal MK=millinnial kingdom
5. new heaven & new earth

Postrib a-mill outline:

0. church age continues - is the same as: <-- you are here
2. Tribulation time - is the same as: <-- you are here
4. spiritual MK=millinnial kingdom <-- you are here
1.3. Second Advent of Jesus event
(this is one event with the rapture/resurrection)
5. new heaven & new earth

Peterist a-mill outline:

0. church age continues <-- you are here
1. rapture/resurrection <done happened
2. Tribulation time <-- or maybe you are here
3. Second Advent of Jesus event <done happend
4. spiritual MK=millinnial kingdom <done happened
5. new heaven & new earth <-- or maybe you are here

Ed recommends the pretrib pre-mill
view as aligning most nearly with Holy Scripture.
Ed recommends:
get Rapture Ready!
Stay Rapture Ready!

 

7 years are guaranteed for the tribulation period,,

0-antichrist revealed
1-restrainer removed-Holy Spirit via rapture-dead in Christ shall rise first.
2- 1st 3 and 1/2 years-antichrist will bring global peace.
3-beginning mid week. -Antichrist will cause the oblation to cease and set himself up in the temple as God.
4-blessed are they who remain in the mountians for the full 1300 days.
5-end of the 7 year tribulation, Christ return, feet upon the mount of olives, with his saints,
his brightenss destroys the antichrist, the nations of that went against Israel will be destroyed. The thousand year reign shall begin.

 

Of the ones you gave, I think I most closely believe this one:

 

Of the ones you gave, I think I most closely believe this one:

</font>[/QUOTE]Thank You Brother Baptist Believer.
I find your position to be the second
most common among those who teach an
actual physical return of Jesus to the world
(AKA: Second Advent and/or Second Coming).

Needless to say, as a student of such
things, i can prove it is so from the
Holy Scriptures. Not that I do being
pretrib.

 

God bless you for
your snide underwriting of my work.

Usually i get slapped both left and right
cheek which one saying my explanation is too
complex and another it is too simple;
one saying my explanation lacks details
and another asking "Who is the restrainer"?

-----------------

I will show IT IS WRITTEN:
The Anti-messiah shall reign for 7-years,
the Tribulation period.
The rapture (caught up) will follow a resurrection.
The rapture/resurrection will occur without
previous notice and before the Tribulation period
(wrath).
The rapture (caught up)/resurrection (gathering)
is at the beginning of the Tribulation period
(time of the Anti-messiah)

The Anti-messiah shall reign for 7-years,
the Tribulation period. FOR IT IS WRITTEN
in Daniel 9:26-27 (nKJV):

"And after the sixty-two weeks Messiah
shall be cut off, but not for Himself;
And the people of the prince who is to
come Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary
The end of it shall be with a flood,
And till the end of the war desolations
are determined.
27 Then he shall confirm a covenant with
many for one week; But in the middle
of the week He shall bring an end
to sacrifice and offering. And on
the wing of abominations shall be
one who makes desolate, Even until
the consummation, which is determined,
Is poured out on the desolate."

Please note the lower case "h" in "he" in verse 27
refering not to Messiah in verse 26 but the
to the "prince that shall come".
Note it is written that the Anti-messiah's seven years
are divided in the middle by the abomination
of desolation, dividing the 7-year period into
to parts each 3½-years long (1260 days, 42 months).

The rapture (caught up) will follow a resurrection,
FOR IT IS WRITTEN in 1 Thessalonains 4:13-18 (KJV1873):

But I would not have you to be ignorant,
brethren, concerning them which are asleep,
that ye sorrow not, even as others which have
no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose
again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus
will God bring with him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of
the Lord, that we which are alive and remain
unto the coming of the Lord shall
not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from
heaven with a shout, with the voice
of the archangel, and with the trump of God:
and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain
shall be caught up together with them
in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air:
and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

The rapture/resurrection will occur without
previous notice and before the Tribulation period
(wrath) FOR IT IS WRITTEN in
1 Thessalonains 5:1-10 (KJV1873):

1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren,
ye have no need that I write unto you.
2 For yourselves know perfectly that
the day of the Lord so cometh as
a thief in the night.
3 For when they shall say,
Peace and safety; then sudden destruction
cometh upon them, as travail upon
a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness,
that that day should overtake you as a thief.
5 Ye are all the children of light,
and the children of the day: we are
not of the night, nor of darkness.
6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others;
but let us watch and be sober.
7 For they that sleep sleep in the night;
and they that be drunken are drunken
in the night.
8 But let us, who are of the day,
be sober, putting on the breastplate
of faith and love; and for an helmet,
the hope of salvation.
9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath,
but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
10 Who died for us, that, whether
we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.
11 Wherefore comfort yourselves together,
and edify one another, even as also ye do.

The rapture (caught up)/resurrection (gathering)
is at the beginning of the Tribulation period
(time of the Anti-messiah)
FOR IT IS WRITTEN in 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3 (KJV1873):

Now we beseech you, brethren,
by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ,
and by our gathering together unto him,
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind,
or be troubled, neither by spirit,
nor by word, nor by letter as from us,
as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means:
for that day shall not come, except
there come a falling away first,
and that man of sin be revealed,
the son of perdition;

I have shown IT IS WRITTEN:
The Anti-messiah shall reign for 7-years,
the Tribulation period.
The rapture (caught up) will follow a resurrection.
The rapture/resurrection will occur without
previous notice and before the Tribulation period
(wrath).
The rapture (caught up)/resurrection (gathering)
is at the beginning of the Tribulation period
(time of the Anti-messiah).

 

Ed, don't say God bless you if you don't mean it.

Btw, I am pretrib. I hardly need arguments for it.

You do indeed interpret the restrainer as the Holy Spirit based on your little charts. It isn't something you can exegetically prove. If you can, please do so.

 

Daniel David: " It isn't something you can exegetically prove."

If you would be so kind as to delineate the
methods of "exegetically prove" I would be
ever so grateful. I don't have a Master of Divinity.

Truth in writing caveat:
"Ever so grateful" is an euphemism for "will peak my
interest for about 3 minutes".

BTW, i was apparently kicked off the Rapture Ready board for
saying "God bless you" without meaning it.
If you insist on pursuing that claim please
bring out your two witnesses. Thank you.

1 Titus 5:19 (KJV1769):

Against an elder receive not an accusation,
but before two or three witnesses.

 

1. Demonstrate from the text of Holy Writ that the restrainer is the Holy Spirit. I realize it fits into your charts, but they are not inspired. I prefer to deal in the realm of authoritative material.

2. Neither do I. Now that we got that over with, we can get back to the issue.

3. What is your point of all this?

4. Ditto?

 

Ed,

You twists the order what Christ actually saying. You cannot separate Matt 24:31 from Matthew 24:29-30, that is against the hermenuetic rule - intepreting in contextually.

The gathering together(vs. 31) cannot be happen yet till Christ must come first - Matt. 24:29-30.

No excuse for you, you knows better than that. Christ tells us very clear Christ will come after the tribulation to gathering us together. Reading Matt. 24:29-31 is not difficult for you to understand it. You have to accept what Christ saying it.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 - Amen!

p.s. by the way, that was SILLY for raptureready to kick you for saying 'God bless you.'.

You did the right thing with positive thing. No reason for raptureready to kick you out for saying it.

I have been go to raptureready often lately, but not see you there. No wonder why you was kick out for no reason.

Hey! I like your humor!!! God bless you!

 

And may God's
blessing be onto you double what you
prayed for me!

 

My church is Baptist General Convention of Texas. My church's official position is adoped from article 10 of the 1963 Baptist Faith and Message. We only teach where the scriptures are clear. We do not dispute over the order of events.

X. Last Things

God in his own time and in his own way, will bring the world to its appropriate end. According to His promise Jesus Christ will return personally and visibly in glory to the earth; the dead will be raised; and Christ will judge all men in righteousness. The unrighteous will be consigned to Hell, the place of everlasting punishment. The righteous in their resurrected and glorified bodies will receive their reward and will dwell forever in Heaven with the Lord.

 

My pastor is "A-Mill" and strongly convicted about it. That's okay with us because it causes those of us who've been fed the pre-mill/pre-trib doctrine most of our lives to really study the Scriptures concerning the end times. However, he does not discourage anyone from holding a pre-mill view as long as they can support it from Scripture and they don't use the "Left Behind" series to prove their point.

 

I sympathize with you. It can get crazy and silly. I don't study eschatology (end times) much anymore because I got turned off watching Christians accusing each other of heresy because their view was a little different from theirs. Sad and stupid.

I've come to believe that a church should teach and preach what is clear from the Bible and avoid teaching non-essentials as a litmus test for fellowship.