Your view on abortion

[webdog]

What should be the difference between a secular argument on abortion and a believer’s argument on abortion?

The difference should be that believers go to God’s Word for the answer. God has the answer for what to do, doesn’t He?

Unless I missed it, after reading through 11 pages with over 109 posts not one verse of scripture has been used to support anyone person’s beliefs.

I find it interesting that when this issue comes up for discussion, the Word of God is not mentioned.

If a non believer comes to this site to look for answers on the subject of abortion they see the same argument a non believer uses. Opinions mean very little in light of God's Word on this matter.

Just my thoughts.

In Christ,
Dave

Is there Scripture that tells us what we should do in the instance we hear 2 people calling for help in a burning house?

 

[rbell]

And if you'll note that I referred to the fact that the woman would be conscience and have mental awareness. If in the case the woman was not able to make that decision then it would be the husband's decision. If it were me I'd have to choose that my wife would live. If there is no hope for the child. However, if there were hope for the child I honestly do not know what my decision would be.

Very well.

I do know that I would not condemn you in your decision (a horrific one to make, at that).

Much prayer would be in order.

 

[padredurand]

Enjoy life with the woman whom you love all the days of your fleeting life which He has given to you under the sun; for this is your reward in life and in your toil in which you have labored under the sun.
Ecclesiastes 9:9 NASB
​

My wife is a reward from God as well; one with whom I am to enjoy life. She is my helpmeet and my flesh. I cannot begin to imagine having to choose which reward to keep, if any.

I spent a few hours with a family whose child died within hours of birth last week. Right now I am thinking how they clung to each other, comforting, consoling and often torn with their grief...... Nonetheless, they were as husband and wife, united in their grief - the sorrow of one was the sorrow of the other - bearing one another's burden. I cannot fully comprehend the life of a child counted in minutes nor having to say Goodbye before you really had a chance to say Hello. Even in death this child was a reward to the parents. It has forged a deeper bond of love between a husband and wife and many other blessings yet to be seen.

Rewards are not necessarily perpetual. My wife - a reward from God - is most importantly my sister in Jesus Christ. When our days on earth are over she will no longer be my wife yet we will worship at the feet of Jesus for eternity. My wife miscarried what would have been our second child. Barely past the embryonic stage and never to breath a single breath upon this earth, but no doubt, a blessing to us and indeed a reward.​

 

[saved and sure]

And......your post is one of the 109 to use no Scripture.

Just sayin'.

I don't have a dog in the fight or I would. I am making an observation and nothing more.

Without going to God's Word for the answers, the only value of the discussion is12 pages of opinions. And we know what value opinions have.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Unless I missed it, after reading through 11 pages with over 109 posts not one verse of scripture has been used to support anyone person’s beliefs.

I find it interesting that when this issue comes up for discussion, the Word of God is not mentioned.

You must have just skipped over my posts where I quoted from Psalm 127:3 that tells us children are an heritage of the Lord and the fruit of the womb His reward.

An aborted child fruit? Yes, it is fruit... destroyed by man's hands.

 

[annsni]

94% of the abortions performed in the world today are for reasons other than the life of the mother being at risk. The vast majority of instances can be qualified under "A woman and/or her partner decide they do not want the baby they have conceived." This is an utmost evil. Even in the more difficult 6% of instances, abortion should never be the first option. The life of a human being in the womb is worth every effort to allow a full-term birthing process.

http://www.gotquestions.org/abortion-Bible.html

Psalms 127:3 Lo, children are an heritage of the LORD: and the fruit of the womb is his reward.

Linda - I'm with you 100% here. Abortion is murder. Period. Probably the majority of the times that abortion is done "to preserve the life of the mother" fall under circumstances that are NOT really about the life of mom - but about her quality of life. In other words, her mental health. Delivering a baby that is not perfect is not easy but that doesn't give us the right to kill the child to make it easier on us.

However, from what I'm reading from your husband, he's saying that even in the case of an ectopic pregnancy or eclampsia where the baby WILL not survive - and the mother will not survive if the baby is left alone, it is not our right to choose to take that child. Both baby and mother will die if left alone - or we can save the mother. It's a terrible choice but one that honestly has to be made at times. For me, if there was ANY chance I could get to say 24 weeeks (the absolute earliest we can have a chance to save a baby), then I'd fight tooth and nail to get there to try to save the life of my child. I have 4 children here and 2 waiting for me in heaven. I fought hard for each and every one of them as I've struggled with infertility so I certainly know that children are a heritage, a reward and a most amazing blessing. But God has given us minds, medicine and wisdom in Him - and there are times a hard choice needs to be made. Is it murder? Certainly it is. But it's murder to also sit by and watch your wife die when it was preventable.

...and what if she decides not to remove the child, meaning the child and your wife would both die? You would still leave her with that decision?

Why should this decision be your wife's to make? The Bible says that you become one flesh, and the decison to lead your home, including your wife falls on us.

Legally, it is not the husband's decision to make. If the wife decides to risk her life for her child's, if she's stated it clearly, the doctors cannot go against her wishes and listen to her husband. I think if she clearly stated it, even once she becomes unconscious, her husband still cannot redirect the doctors to disobey her express wishes - except maybe by court order.

 

[The Scribe]

Legally, it is not the husband's decision to make. If the wife decides to risk her life for her child's, if she's stated it clearly, the doctors cannot go against her wishes and listen to her husband. I think if she clearly stated it, even once she becomes unconscious, her husband still cannot redirect the doctors to disobey her express wishes - except maybe by court order.

It would have nothing to do with lawyers, if someone is a Christian.
Man's law means nothing in the eyes of God.

Luke 11:46 (KJV)
And he said, Woe unto you also, ye lawyers! for ye lade men with burdens grievous to be borne, and ye yourselves touch not the burdens with one of your fingers.

 

[Jon-Marc]

Maybe God wants you to put it in His hands.

I know that God said, "The just shall live by faith", but sometimes God does not choose to heal. I recently read about a couple whose 12-year-old daughter died of diabetes because they chose to pray instead of seeking a doctor's help. Their daughter would be alive had they gone to a doctor. I don't know why God heals some and not others. It's not my place to try to understand the Almighty; I couldn't anyway. I do believe that He put doctors here to help us when we need it--even though they are terribly expensive.

 

[chuck2336]

Enjoy life with the woman whom you love all the days of your fleeting life which He has given to you under the sun; for this is your reward in life and in your toil in which you have labored under the sun.
Ecclesiastes 9:9 NASB
​

My wife is a reward from God as well; one with whom I am to enjoy life. She is my helpmeet and my flesh. I cannot begin to imagine having to choose which reward to keep, if any.

I spent a few hours with a family whose child died within hours of birth last week. Right now I am thinking how they clung to each other, comforting, consoling and often torn with their grief...... Nonetheless, they were as husband and wife, united in their grief - the sorrow of one was the sorrow of the other - bearing one another's burden. I cannot fully comprehend the life of a child counted in minutes nor having to say Goodbye before you really had a chance to say Hello. Even in death this child was a reward to the parents. It has forged a deeper bond of love between a husband and wife and many other blessings yet to be seen.

Rewards are not necessarily perpetual. My wife - a reward from God - is most importantly my sister in Jesus Christ. When our days on earth are over she will no longer be my wife yet we will worship at the feet of Jesus for eternity. My wife miscarried what would have been our second child. Barely past the embryonic stage and never to breath a single breath upon this earth, but no doubt, a blessing to us and indeed a reward.​

Well Put! :thumbs:

 

[The Scribe]

I know that God said, "The just shall live by faith", but sometimes God does not choose to heal. I recently read about a couple whose 12-year-old daughter died of diabetes because they chose to pray instead of seeking a doctor's help. Their daughter would be alive had they gone to a doctor. I don't know why God heals some and not others. It's not my place to try to understand the Almighty; I couldn't anyway. I do believe that He put doctors here to help us when we need it--even though they are terribly expensive.

The girl's mother, Leilani Neumann, said the family believes in the Bible and that healing comes from God, but she said they do not belong to an organized religion or faith, are not fanatics and have nothing against doctors.

Article

I wonder why God didn't do anything?

 

[annsni]

It would have nothing to do with lawyers, if someone is a Christian.
Man's law means nothing in the eyes of God.

Luke 11:46 (KJV)
And he said, Woe unto you also, ye lawyers! for ye lade men with burdens grievous to be borne, and ye yourselves touch not the burdens with one of your fingers.

Well, the government's law does mean something in the eyes of God or else He wouldn't have said to obey it.

But even so, as I said, in the law, the patient has the choice of what to do with their care and no one can say anything about it. Period. So as much as a man is the head of the wife, we cannot make doctors do something when they heard something different from the patient.

 

[rbell]

However, from what I'm reading from your husband, he's saying that even in the case of an ectopic pregnancy or eclampsia where the baby WILL not survive - and the mother will not survive if the baby is left alone, it is not our right to choose to take that child. Both baby and mother will die if left alone - or we can save the mother. It's a terrible choice but one that honestly has to be made at times. For me, if there was ANY chance I could get to say 24 weeeks (the absolute earliest we can have a chance to save a baby), then I'd fight tooth and nail to get there to try to save the life of my child. I have 4 children here and 2 waiting for me in heaven. I fought hard for each and every one of them as I've struggled with infertility so I certainly know that children are a heritage, a reward and a most amazing blessing. But God has given us minds, medicine and wisdom in Him - and there are times a hard choice needs to be made. Is it murder? Certainly it is. But it's murder to also sit by and watch your wife die when it was preventable.

How can anyone argue against this?

 

[standingfirminChrist]

How can anyone argue against this?

Maybe it was God's will for her to die in this manner. You admit it is murdering that fetus. Murder is sin. Why would God tell man to sin?

 

[Rubato 1]

Maybe it was God's will for her to die in this manner. You admit it is murdering that fetus. Murder is sin. Why would God tell man to sin?

I'm sure you will agree that Jesus lifted up the 'good' Samaritan as an example of what we are supposed to do. Was the Samaritan wrong or right in feeling that it was his responsibility to intervene in the course of events which God obvioulsy allowed to progress to the point that it did?

 

[standingfirminChrist]

I'm sure you will agree that Jesus lifted up the 'good' Samaritan as an example of what we are supposed to do. Was the Samaritan wrong or right in feeling that it was his responsibility to intervene in the course of events which God obvioulsy allowed to progress to the point that it did?

I notice in the story of the 'certain' Samaritan, those that beat up the man had already left him 'half dead.' Scripture does not say he was dying, only that he was 'half dead.'

The neighbor ministered to his external wounds, bandaged him up, and paid for a room for the man to heal. That is the example Jesus set forth.

In the case of a pregnancy, again I repeat (although many can't seem to answer), God sent that child for a specific cause. Why would He give a child only to have man murder it?

 

[Rubato 1]

Was the Samaritan wrong or right in feeling that it was his responsibility to intervene in the course of events which God obvioulsy allowed to progress to the point that it did?

You are the one who said that all men should just let 'God's will run its course,' so to speak. Was the Samaritan right or wrong?

 

[The Scribe]

Well, the government's law does mean something in the eyes of God or else He wouldn't have said to obey it.

As long as it doesn't go against what God has told you to do.

 

[annsni]

Maybe it was God's will for her to die in this manner. You admit it is murdering that fetus. Murder is sin. Why would God tell man to sin?

Joshua 10:40 "So Joshua smote all the country of the hills, and of the south, and of the vale, and of the springs, and all their kings: he left none remaining, but utterly destroyed all that breathed, as the LORD God of Israel commanded."

God commanded that all who breathed would be killed - murdered. If you look in the preceeding chapters, God Himself did quite a bit of killing but here He COMMANDED Joshua to kill not just the men of the armies but the women and children - all who breathed.

So God does tell man to murder. There is murder that is sin and there is murder that is justified.

If a man comes and is going to shoot your wife, and you have a gun, what do you do? You have a full opportunity to stop him from harming your wife.

Killing any living being is murder. Some of it, however, is justified. If you say "Maybe it was her time to die", then so is it her time to die when she develops high blood pressure, cancer or diabetes. Why have surgery when she's in a car accident and is dying? What religion is that - Christian Science? Where they don't believe in medicine?

You can be guilty of murdering one infant or both the infant and child. Do you want the blood of two souls on your hands? Or one? You have no other choice.

 

[annsni]

I notice in the story of the 'certain' Samaritan, those that beat up the man had already left him 'half dead.' Scripture does not say he was dying, only that he was 'half dead.'

The neighbor ministered to his external wounds, bandaged him up, and paid for a room for the man to heal. That is the example Jesus set forth.

In the case of a pregnancy, again I repeat (although many can't seem to answer), God sent that child for a specific cause. Why would He give a child only to have man murder it?

Ummm - to make us get a glimpse of grace and mercy?

Why did God give a child that will in essence will murder his/her mother?

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Joshua 10:40 "So Joshua smote all the country of the hills, and of the south, and of the vale, and of the springs, and all their kings: he left none remaining, but utterly destroyed all that breathed, as the LORD God of Israel commanded."

God commanded that all who breathed would be killed - murdered. If you look in the preceeding chapters, God Himself did quite a bit of killing but here He COMMANDED Joshua to kill not just the men of the armies but the women and children - all who breathed.

So God does tell man to murder. There is murder that is sin and there is murder that is justified.

If a man comes and is going to shoot your wife, and you have a gun, what do you do? You have a full opportunity to stop him from harming your wife.

Killing any living being is murder. Some of it, however, is justified. If you say "Maybe it was her time to die", then so is it her time to die when she develops high blood pressure, cancer or diabetes. Why have surgery when she's in a car accident and is dying? What religion is that - Christian Science? Where they don't believe in medicine?

You can be guilty of murdering one infant or both the infant and child. Do you want the blood of two souls on your hands? Or one? You have no other choice.

Show me in Scripture where God says to abort a fetus, annsni.

In the case of the Joshua verse you quoted, all were killed... man, woman and child. And they were killed because of sin they had committed, not because of an unwanted pregnancy.