Your view on abortion

[standingfirminChrist]

And what sin did the newborn commit for God to condemn him to death by Joshua's hand?

Go back and study. And this time, try allowing God to speak instead of the theory that God allows the shedding of innocent blood.

 

[Rubato 1]

Why not read verse 36 and 37? They are part of the story. And they help to shoot down the abortion is ok theory.

OK, I will. Oops! They say that the Samaritan was correct in helping the poor Jew. I guess your basis of 'don't intervene in events--just let God's will transpire' should be thrown out the window, huh? After all, that's just wisdom of men (ie, SFIC); there is no basis for this in scripture...

And since this has been the foundation of your whole argument, I'm thinking that you need to pick another premise and admit that in the example given of a man choosing between his unborn child nad his wife is a valid situation in which to exercise your God-given ability to make rational choices.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

OK, I will. Oops! They say that the Samaritan was correct in helping the poor Jew. I guess your basis of 'don't intervene in events--just let God's will transpire' should be thrown out the window, huh? After all, that's just wisdom of men (ie, SFIC); there is no basis for this in scripture...

And since this has been the foundation of your whole argument, I'm thinking that you need to pick another premise and admit that in the example given of a man choosing between his unborn child nad his wife is a valid situation in which to exercise your God-given ability to make rational choices.

There is no comparison in the story in Luke 10 to abortion. You are trying to link two different chains with a faulty link.

 

[Rubato 1]

There is no comparison in the story in Luke 10 to abortion. You are trying to link two different chains with a faulty link.

Sorry. You made the link by stating that the husband would be in the wrong to choose to save his wife's life. Shall I list the post #'s?

You are wrong to justify your position on the basis of 'not intervening in the flow of events.' I can show that scripturally. You cannot prove your position scripturally, so you are trying to weasel out of my point.

I'm afraid you are not being perfectly honest here.

 

[annsni]

Go back and study. And this time, try allowing God to speak instead of the theory that God allows the shedding of innocent blood.

Go back and study? Yep - been doing that. Thanks for being so condescending. God ordered the murder of innocents. Period. Does He have reasons? Yes - just as there is a reason to have to make the difficult choice to allow one to die to preserve the life of another when that life would not be able to survive anyway.

I honestly ask - you would allow your wife to die a death from an ectopic pregnancy?

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Sorry. You made the link by stating that the husband would be in the wrong to choose to save his wife's life. Shall I list the post #'s?

You are wrong to justify your position on the basis of 'not intervening in the flow of events.' I can show that scripturally. You cannot prove your position scripturally, so you are trying to weasel out of my point.

I'm afraid you are not being perfectly honest here.

You still want to justify the shedding of innocent blood, don't you?

Have at it. I don't have to answer to God for those who are deceived into believing their choice to abort a fetus was justified because someone said Luke 10 or Joshua 6 says abortion is ok.

Abortion is never ok. It is shedding of innocent blood. It is an abomination according to God's Word. But hey, you apparently know better than God.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Go back and study? Yep - been doing that. Thanks for being so condescending. God ordered the murder of innocents. Period. Does He have reasons? Yes - just as there is a reason to have to make the difficult choice to allow one to die to preserve the life of another when that life would not be able to survive anyway.

I honestly ask - you would allow your wife to die a death from an ectopic pregnancy?

If God ordered the death, believe me... they were not innocent. He knows from the beginning what sins one will commit.

But in the case of today's abortion clinics and doctors who perform them there or elsewhere, it is not God ordering the death of the fetus... it is man's decision. Shedding innocent blood.

 

[Rubato 1]

You still want to justify the shedding of innocent blood, don't you?

Have at it. *snip*

Thank you for admiting that you could no longer argue along that line of reasoning.

BTW, I don't believe in abortion either. But I also don't believe in arguing from a position that is not well-founded, even if the goal is good.

 

[webdog]

If God ordered the death, believe me... they were not innocent. He knows from the beginning what sins one will commit.

Knowing what sins one WILL commit is not the same thing as being guilty of those future sins at PRESENT. Your view is mirroring that of the calvinists' augustinian original sin.
Answer Annsi's question...it's been posed to you quite a few times.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

I have answered the question. It has not been accepted.

God hates those who shed innocent blood. Abortion advocates are an abomination according to God's Word.

 

[Rubato 1]

I have answered the question. It has not been accepted.

God hates those who shed innocent blood. Abortion advocates are an abomination according to God's Word.

We all understand your position, SFIC. You don't need to continue repeating that.

You can just say, 'I need to think about that,' or 'I can't say what I would do there.'

 

[annsni]

I will ask one last time:

Your wife (or daughter) is 9 weeks pregnant and suddenly begins experiencing excrutiating pain in their abdomen. You rush to the hospital and find that the baby, rather than implanting in the mother's womb, has implanted in the fallopian tube. The doctors tell you that your wife (or daughter) will die unless the baby is removed from the tube. The tube is about to burst and when it does, your wife (or daughter) will most surely bleed to death on the gurney unless they can get in there now and remove the child.

What say you?

Do you:

A) Say, "Well, I guess God decided that my wife should die today. I will not kill this baby." thus condemning your wife to death - and the child that had a 0% chance of survival.
B) Say, "The baby will not survive - so save my wife." thus saving one life and sacrificing one.

Either way the baby is dead. While it is not dead at this time, it is absolutely 100% guaranteed that the baby will die and without surgery, your wife will die too.

Atleast option B has only one innocent's blood on your hands. Option A has 2. Is that the way a husband cares for his wife - as much as Christ loved the church? Did Christ just sit aside and allow His bride to die?

 

[standingfirminChrist]

I will ask one last time:

Your wife (or daughter) is 9 weeks pregnant and suddenly begins experiencing excrutiating pain in their abdomen. You rush to the hospital and find that the baby, rather than implanting in the mother's womb, has implanted in the fallopian tube. The doctors tell you that your wife (or daughter) will die unless the baby is removed from the tube. The tube is about to burst and when it does, your wife (or daughter) will most surely bleed to death on the gurney unless they can get in there now and remove the child.

What say you?

Do you:

A) Say, "Well, I guess God decided that my wife should die today. I will not kill this baby." thus condemning your wife to death - and the child that had a 0% chance of survival.
B) Say, "The baby will not survive - so save my wife." thus saving one life and sacrificing one.

Either way the baby is dead. While it is not dead at this time, it is absolutely 100% guaranteed that the baby will die and without surgery, your wife will die too.

Atleast option B has only one innocent's blood on your hands. Option A has 2. Is that the way a husband cares for his wife - as much as Christ loved the church? Did Christ just sit aside and allow His bride to die?

Matthew 13:58 And he did not many mighty works there because of their unbelief.

Oh ye of little faith, wherefore didst thou doubt?

I can see why Jesus is unable to do many wonderful works this day and age. Too many fail to believe that with just a little bit of faith, He can move mountains in their lives.

Without faith, it is impossible to please God. Without faith, man turns to the counsel of the ungodly doctors who advise them to shed innocent blood.

 

[annsni]

Matthew 13:58 And he did not many mighty works there because of their unbelief.

Oh ye of little faith, wherefore didst thou doubt?

I can see why Jesus is unable to do many wonderful works this day and age. Too many fail to believe that with just a little bit of faith, He can move mountains in their lives.

Without faith, it is impossible to please God. Without faith, man turns to the counsel of the ungodly doctors who advise them to shed innocent blood.

Where was that Dodge picture??

Just to let you know, I myself was part of a miracle - and a miracle concerning children. I have a tremendous amount of faith in God.

However, when your appendix is about to burst, do you have faith that God will heal you or do you go in for surgery?

Are you of the belief like Christian Scientists who don't believe in medicine?

 

[rbell]

But hey, you apparently know better than God.

SFIC, your pride is so much of a problem, it affects your interaction with others. For you to accuse someone else of that is hypocritical, at the very least.

 

[rbell]

Oh ye of little faith, wherefore didst thou doubt?

I can see why Jesus is unable to do many wonderful works this day and age. Too many fail to believe that with just a little bit of faith, He can move mountains in their lives.

Without faith, it is impossible to please God. Without faith, man turns to the counsel of the ungodly doctors who advise them to shed innocent blood.

When SFIC gets really condescending, he uses 16th-century language. That way, he can call your faith (and sometimes your salvation) into question, but sound sanctified in doing so.

SFIC, which one are you: Jehovah's Witness, Muslim, or Christian Scientist? Because your approach to all things medical seems to be an amalgamation of the three.....

 

[standingfirminChrist]

SFIC, your pride is so much of a problem, it affects your interaction with others. For you to accuse someone else of that is hypocritical, at the very least.

You just don't get it, do you. I am not a prideful man. My pastor can tell you that. My brothers and sisters, cousins, aunts and uncles can tell you that I am not a prideful man.

What you are misdiagnosing as pride is actually humility before God. Believing His Word.

Hypocritical? Is it not hypocritical to say one loves God and yet murdering that innocent baby in the womb?

Don't talk to me about pride and hypocrisy.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

I would venture to say it is prideful to turn to an ungodly doctor who advises murder before turning to God, the creator of life.

 

[annsni]

It's just easier to quote myself than to ask the same question again.

I will ask one last time: (adding in - since it was not answered, I'll ask a last last time. LOL)

Your wife (or daughter) is 9 weeks pregnant and suddenly begins experiencing excrutiating pain in their abdomen. You rush to the hospital and find that the baby, rather than implanting in the mother's womb, has implanted in the fallopian tube. The doctors tell you that your wife (or daughter) will die unless the baby is removed from the tube. The tube is about to burst and when it does, your wife (or daughter) will most surely bleed to death on the gurney unless they can get in there now and remove the child.

What say you?

Do you:

A) Say, "Well, I guess God decided that my wife should die today. I will not kill this baby." thus condemning your wife to death - and the child that had a 0% chance of survival.
B) Say, "The baby will not survive - so save my wife." thus saving one life and sacrificing one.

Either way the baby is dead. While it is not dead at this time, it is absolutely 100% guaranteed that the baby will die and without surgery, your wife will die too.

Atleast option B has only one innocent's blood on your hands. Option A has 2. Is that the way a husband cares for his wife - as much as Christ loved the church? Did Christ just sit aside and allow His bride to die?

 

[annsni]

I would venture to say it is prideful to turn to an ungodly doctor who advises murder before turning to God, the creator of life.

What makes you decide that it's an ungodly doctor and how do you know the patient and doctor haven't turned to God before making a decision?

When I miscarried my 4th child, my doctor did an ultrasound and found that the baby had no heartbeat but the baby and sack were too perfect for the baby to be truly dead - so he and I prayed and we decided to wait (there was no health risk in waiting). When I went back 3 days later, it was clear that the baby had died.

So while I've not had to make the decision to terminate a pregnancy that is threatening my life, it is not only ungodly doctors who have had to make the choice. AND that they decide to do surgery before praying about it?

Not with a pregnancy issue, but I've seen personally with my own husband where God stoped the doctor from doing a surgery that turns out would have been detrimental to my husband's mobility if he had done the surgery. My husband was under anethesia and ready for the operation but God stopped him. And this was not a godly doctor (we knew him).

So God could still perform a miracle and stop the surgery. It's happened to me but maybe you've never allowed God to work a miracle through the doctors in your life. I don't know.