Your view on abortion

[menageriekeeper]

Originally Posted by webdog
...so you would stand by and watch your wife die? :BangHead: :BangHead: :BangHead:

God has a reason for putting the fetus there. It is His will.

Hey Standing Firm, you just murdered my mother and in doing so murdered me as well. I am the child that was born after my parents "terminated" a tubal pregnancy.

So you gonna sit there and tell me I shouldn't have been born and my brother should have been raised motherless?

Oh wait! All that stuff about "children are an heritage from the Lord'? You think God rewarded my parents with me because why? After all, they murdered my predessor. Tell me just how God works all that.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Hey Standing Firm, you just murdered my mother and in doing so murdered me as well. I am the child that was born after my parents "terminated" a tubal pregnancy.

So you gonna sit there and tell me I shouldn't have been born and my brother should have been raised motherless?

Are you going to tell me God allows a pregnancy just to allow man to murder the fetus?

 

[menageriekeeper]

In some cases yes, Standing Firm, I'm telling you exactly that.

You think there weren't any pregnant women among those God ordered killed in the taking of Canaan? Was their death at the hands of the Isrealites really any different than if their parents had chosen to do the killing instead? The unborn still ended up dead!

Here's another for you. I know a certain lady who had a tubal pregnancy, terminated it and found out she was still pregnant with a twin. You think she should have allowed herself and the then unknown babe to die or maybe God gave us brains and He expects us to use them.

btw, I added to my last post. you might want to go back read the addition. Then again, it hardly helps support your position so, maybe you don't want to answer it.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

In some cases yes, Standing Firm, I'm telling you exactly that.

You think there weren't any pregnant women among those God ordered killed in the taking of Canaan? Was their death at the hands of the Isrealites really any different than if their parents had chosen to do the killing instead? The unborn still ended up dead!

Here's another for you. I know a certain lady who had a tubal pregnancy, terminated it and found out she was still pregnant with a twin. You think she should have allowed herself and the then unknown babe to die or maybe God gave us brains and He expects us to use them.

btw, I added to my last post. you might want to go back read the addition. Then again, it hardly helps support your position so, maybe you don't want to answer it.

read your last post. I am sorry you don't believe children are an heritage from the Lord and the fruit of the womb His reward. as the Word of God says.

Did it ever occur to you that with faith, God could have saved that child?

People may have faith, but apparently only in certain situations. When it comes to medical issues, God apparently doesn't know as much as doctors from what I read from many.

Well, my faith is in God concerning me and my family in all areas of my life.

As I am considered a heretic and a hypocrite for my faith in God, this will be my last post in this thread.

 

[D28guy]

StandingFirm,

"Instead of saying just amazing or sad, produce Scripture that tells me that life God gave is worthy of death."

I'll answer that after you answer the question I have asked of you about 3 times, with no response.

Why are you advocating the murder of the wife?

In the situation, they were told that if you save the baby, the mom dies.(and in Anns case, they BOTH die!)

You are saying they should save the baby...since murder is wrong...yet you are murdering the mom.

God gave life to that mom, yet...using the logic you are employing....you are advocating murdering the mom.

Why are you advocating MURDER, StandingFirm?

Show me a scripture that tells me that the life that God gave...the mom...is worthy of death?

Mike

 

[D28guy]

Well, I see that SFIC has "signed" off from this thread, so I guess my question will never be answered.



This is one of the saddest threads I think I have ever read on this board.

Sometimes the time comes...and its happened with me from time to time...when you just have to "man" up and say something like...

"OK...I mispoke there. I can be stubborn and I should have backed off"

Or...

"Alright, it appears that I was wrong. Sorry"

Or...

"You know what? What you are saying makes some sense. I may have to re-think my position".

It seems really hard at 1st, but after you say it, you think..."Well, that wasnt so difficult!" And you actually feel sort of...cleansed. :thumbs:

But to just stubbornly continue on and on and on and on with a clearly wrong...and in this case scripturally wrong...view, is just very sad to observe.

Mike

 

[Rubato 1]

Or God could honor faith and move the fetus miraculously.

Sorry, you already lost that argument:

Regarding standing aside and not 'interfering in the course of events' from post#'s 166, 168

standingfirminChrist][/b]
You still want to justify the shedding of innocent blood, don't you?

Have at it. *snip*

Thank you for admiting that you could no longer argue along that line of reasoning.

BTW, I don't believe in abortion either. But I also don't believe in arguing from a position that is not well-founded, even if the goal is good.

 

[I Am Blessed 24]

He needs his mother, and I need my wife. Neither of us can live without her.

This statement is incorrect, Joe. There are too many widows and widowers who are alive and well.

I did not think I could live without my husband either. My husband died when I was 27 and I had 4 young children to raise. All of us are still around. Was it pleasant? Of course not! But we all survived.

Surely you don't believe God would give a child to be born into the world just so you could prevent its ever living?

Yes, children are a gift from God, SFIC, and He gives them to us to be born into the world. What about a miscarriage? God gave that child just as much as He gives any child, so why does He allow a miscarriage? Please don't say that it is because of the sins of the parents....

God has to allow a miscarriage. You stated that God has never murdered. Wouldn't a miscarriage be murder if God has allowed it? God has ordered many murders to take place in the course of history.

 

[annsni]

read your last post. I am sorry you don't believe children are an heritage from the Lord and the fruit of the womb His reward. as the Word of God says.

Did it ever occur to you that with faith, God could have saved that child?

People may have faith, but apparently only in certain situations. When it comes to medical issues, God apparently doesn't know as much as doctors from what I read from many.

Well, my faith is in God concerning me and my family in all areas of my life.

As I am considered a heretic and a hypocrite for my faith in God, this will be my last post in this thread.

I'm sorry to point out to you that none of us said that we don't believe that children are a heritage from the Lord. We certainly believe that. But guess what? Where is our treasure? In heaven. The two children that God created to die are with Him in heaven worshipping Him. It was not my choice for those 2 babes to die but they did. Why would God create a child to only have them die - because these children WILL die. An ectopic pregnancy or another situation where the mother will certainly die will result in the death of the child. So God creates children to die. Are they any less a heritage? No. You limit God to this world - yet you tell us to not love the things of this world. Interesting dilemma here.

You have very much the beliefs of the Christian Scientists - that if you have enough faith, then God can heal. You know what? All the faith in the world won't heal unless God wills it. There are many people who had a ton of faith who are dead. That little girl that Joe mentioned who died because her parents had enough faith in God that He could heal her is just as dead as someone who didn't have faith. My mother had faith till the end that God could heal her of her breast cancer - yet she's as dead as anyone else who didn't have faith.

Having faith in God that He can heal is wonderful - but sometimes He chooses to heal through doctors. I really honestly pray that no one in your family has to make this choice and that in choosing life, they will receive your full condemnation. That is sad - the lives that will be snuffed out because you decide to not do anything. Have you ever had surgery? Did you not have enough faith that God could heal you otherwise? What about someone who has a dangerous surgery that could potentially risk their life but doing the surgery could save it - it's a 50/50 chance? That's what happened with my infant nephew. They chose to do the surgery because without it he would die. But with it, he could still die because it was delicate surgery.

Why am I wasting my time typing all this? I don't know but it hurts a lot less than this.....:BangHead:

 

[Rubato 1]

As I am considered a heretic and a hypocrite for my faith in God, this will be my last post in this thread.

Not so fast. I'm going to quote you:

read your last post. I am sorry.*small snip*

 

[Rubato 1]

Well, I see that SFIC has "signed" off from this thread, so I guess my question will never be answered.

Mike

Relax. This is SFIC's way of admiting that he has not ground to stand upon. He lost the debate; don't worry about him not admiting it--I think he realizes that it's so obvious, that he doesnt' have to admit it...
You might be able to ask him in another thread, too...raying:


IMO,

R1

 

[The Scribe]

Relax. This is SFIC's way of admiting that he has not ground to stand upon. He lost the debate; don't worry about him not admiting it--I think he realizes that it's so obvious, that he doesnt' have to admit it...
You might be able to ask him in another thread, too...raying:
IMO,

R1

How did he lose or give up? Look at the poll. It's obvious that most people believe abortion is sin and there's no justification for it.

Maybe, he quit replying because we are supposed to knock the dust from our feet when people harden their hearts to the truth and we aren't supposed to cast pearls before swine.

:wavey:

 

[rbell]

An ectopic pregnancy as in the scenario annsni has put forth where the woman is in excruciating pain is not a abortion case at all... even though she claims it is.

If it is that far along, the fetus is already dead. A doctor saving the mother at that point is not performing an abortion of a live fetus. So that is a no-brainer.

Again, God allows a woman to get preganant for what reason? By most of the answers so far it would appear that He gave life so man could destroy it.

If you think I am prideful for believing the Word of God, you are sadly mistaken.

God never gives a person a baby so that person can turn around and kill it...NEVER!

do your homework before arguing such a profoundly ignorant set of statements.

Research "ectopic pregnancy" and come back when you are educated.

And yes, SFIC, you are prideful. Someone who cannot admit wrong is prideful. That's you.

 

[rbell]

Are you going to tell me God allows a pregnancy just to allow man to murder the fetus?

Another example of your pride. You suppose to know the mind of God. How presumtuous.

 

[rbell]

How did he lose or give up? Look at the poll. It's obvious that most people believe abortion is sin and there's no justification for it.

Maybe, he quit replying because we are supposed to knock the dust from our feet when people harden their hearts to the truth and we aren't supposed to cast pearls before swine.

:wavey:

We've just posted 2 pages of irrefutable facts, and you have just absolutely ignored them all. Nice job.

 

[The Scribe]

We've just posted 2 pages of irrefutable facts, and you have just absolutely ignored them all. Nice job.

Maybe, lies like abortionists state to make abortion seem like a good thing to do.

You know to get rid of that pesky thing called responsibility.

 

[rbell]

Maybe, lies like abortionists state to make abortion seem like a good thing to do.

You know to get rid of that pesky thing called responsibility.

So tell us, O wise one, what you would do if your wife had an ectopic pregnancy?

 

[rbell]

Maybe, lies like abortionists state to make abortion seem like a good thing to do.

You know to get rid of that pesky thing called responsibility.

And I guess, you could be honest, and not refer to people like me as "abortionists." I think my position is clear. Thus, you are either being:

• dishonest;
• lazy (not reading the dozen times I've condemned abortion...except when the mother's life is in imminent danger);
• Contrarian (you just want to argue, and will stir stuff up).

 

[The Scribe]

It's not that I'm lazy, it's that the topic was Your view on abortion being a sin. Then on a Christian site people bring up the slightest things to stir up an argument. Why can't we just agree abortion is a sin and leave it at that?

Instead of bringing up every small problem that could happen.

 

[rbell]

It's not that I'm lazy, it's that the topic was Your view on abortion being a sin. Then on a Christian site people bring up the slightest things to stir up an argument. Why can't we just agree abortion is a sin and leave it at that?

Instead of bringing up every small problem that could happen.

Umm....we were discussing the subject of abortion.

Someone expressed that they were against all abortion except when the mother's life was in danger, and it was a "save one, or lose two" situation.

SFIC started the grenade lobbing of the murder charge at that point.


Why do you have a problem with people thoroughly thinking out how they view an issue? Most of us here are crystal clear that we think abortion is murder. But as you can see, many of us have faced on a first-hand basis the situation of someone as described, a "save one or lose two" situation.

Why do you see a problem with people thinking through the issue?

Besides, I strongly believe my position makes much more sense than the "just have faith and do nothing" position of SFIC when it comes to ectopic pregnancy.

And for the record.....yes, I would pray for a miracle. But God has given us doctors, and sometimes medical knowledge and application gets us through the tough times.