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‘It’s Beginning To Look a Lot Like Russia…”

Discussion in 'Political Debate & Discussion' started by poncho, Dec 17, 2010.

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  1. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    I cited the SCOTUS cases for both.
    I can read. In fact I (unlike you) actually read Heller v DC and McDonald v Chicago, not to mention I also read Bonidy et al v. USPS et al, filed Monday, October 8, 2010 in U.S. District Court for the District of Colorado. As long as we are on the subject (well, at least I am) I am also closely following Sykes v. McGinness and Nordyke v. King.

    Now, do you want to post something intelligent or just say "you are wrong" and "learn to read" again, rather like a 5 year old would do?
     
    #81 TCassidy, Dec 23, 2010
  2. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Yes, they care very much. The last thing they want is an armed citizenry who can challenge their edicts. An armed man is a citizen. A disarmed man is a subject!

    "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government" Thomas Jefferson, Volume 1, Thomas Jefferson Papers, page 334.

    "The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good." George Washington.

    "The best we can hope for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed." Alexander Hamilton, The Federalist Papers.

    "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759.
     
    #82 TCassidy, Dec 23, 2010
  3. carpro

    carpro Well-Known Member
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    Your citing was correct. You totally misinterpreted the rulings, either deliberately or out of ignorance. I was being generous in questioning your reading skills. The other option was that you were deliberately lying about what they said.

    The DC case concerned having guns in the home.

    The Chicago case "incorporated" the 2nd amendment to apply to all states and sent it back to the district court for further action.

    Neither affirmed the right to openly carry a firearm, nor did away with the rights of states to regulate the bearing of firearms. In fact , the Chicago opinion written by Alito specifically stated their decision did not do away with the rights of states and local governments to regulate firearms.
     
    #83 carpro, Dec 23, 2010
  4. poncho

    poncho Well-Known Member

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    That's just Carpro's way of making himself feel superior. And he accuses others of being arrogant. :laugh:

    I suspect he gets pretty lonely hanging around his own threads seeing as how he doesn't get that many visitors to them. :D

    But anyways . . . MERRY STASIMAS y'all!
     
    #84 poncho, Dec 23, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 23, 2010
  5. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Or the third option, you don't know what you are talking about.
    Well, duh! That was all the Heller case addressed. The court cannot render a decision on a matter that is not before it! And the court said the states could have reasonable restrictions on concealed carry. Heller was a landmark decision because the court asserted the right to keep and bear arms was an individual right.
    Exactly! Now you understand! With incorporation the several states must now accept the SCOTUS decision that keeping and bearing arms is an individual right. The lower court's review will have to abide by the SCOTUS ruling.
    Stop and think! If a state, such as Illinois, disallows concealed carry (which it does), then, defacto, and dejure, open (I.E. Constitutional) carry must be allowed.
    That is correct. If they regulate open carry (as Illinois also does), then concealed carry must be legal and "shall issue." If they limit concealed carry then open carry must be legal. They can't have it both ways. One or the other. The states get to choose but cannot outlaw both. Texas outlaws open carry but is "shall issue" regarding concealed carry. California is the opposite. May issue with legal open carry.

    See how easy that is? And you thought the law was complicated! LOL!
     
    #85 TCassidy, Dec 23, 2010
  6. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    I suspected that might be the case. :)
     
    #86 TCassidy, Dec 23, 2010
  7. carpro

    carpro Well-Known Member
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    Not really but you said:
    and that is incorrect. You just admitted it.
     
    #87 carpro, Dec 23, 2010
  8. billwald

    billwald New Member

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    >Yes, they care very much. The last thing they want is an armed citizenry who can challenge their edicts.

    What edicts? They send jobs to China and you all buy Chinese made stuff. You buy their oil, TV, computers, cars. Your solar panels and wind turbines are made off shore. Half the veggies in the grocery stores are grown off shore. Most all clothing is made off shore. About the local products I can buy are booze, ciggy butts, meat, dairy products and sweet corn (4 for a dollar in season).
     
    #88 billwald, Dec 23, 2010
  9. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    <sigh> You just have to learn to pay attention. SCOTUS ruled RKBA is an individual right and incorporation applies that right to the states. Every state must, in order to be in line with the Constitution, allow the RKBA. They may ban either open or concealed carry. To ban both is to violate the constitution. That is exactly what the 17 actions in federal courts are presently doing, forcing the states to obey the Constitution by allowing either one or the other.
     
    #89 TCassidy, Dec 23, 2010
  10. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Maybe you do. I don't :)
     
    #90 TCassidy, Dec 23, 2010
  11. poncho

    poncho Well-Known Member

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    What's gotten lost here is the fact that these enhanced security measures are a big fat failure. They've done nothing to make us safer and cost billions of dollars we cannot afford to squander.

    Wow! That's quite the statement there NS. I kinda figured you worshipped at the feet of the establishment and all but, WoW! I suppose in your world the civil rights protesters back in the sixties deserved to be blasted with firehoses and attacked by police dogs too. :eek:

    And what about those uppity folks who dared to break the rules because they thought they had a right to sit in the front of the bus? Did they deserve to be beaten with a club and dragged off to jail too?

    That's just . . . WoW! No wonder you champion the groping of children and virtually strip searching little old ladies in wheelchairs. With that kind of thinking it's little wonder this country is starting to resemble the USSR!

    I hope Santa Claus leaves you a big box of human compassion under your tree this Christmas!
     
    #91 poncho, Dec 24, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 24, 2010
  12. carpro

    carpro Well-Known Member
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    Once again you have refuted yourself when you said

    If you'd like to take that statement back or modify it to make it true, it'll be ok with me. Since according to Alito:


    The Heller decision was limited to weapons in the home.
     
    #92 carpro, Dec 24, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 24, 2010
  13. NiteShift

    NiteShift New Member

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    Try again. Enhanced security measures did make a difference back in the early 70's. It is fine to debate whether or not the current procedures are effective. As I pointed out, some that were shown to be ineffective have been dropped before and I expect some of those used today will be also.


    Mr Compassion, You know as well as I do that the right to peaceful assembly is guaranteed by the 1st amendment. There is no right to burn down businesses or ROTC buildings. And there is no right to tell a legally appointed law enforcement officer to buzz off, I am getting on that plane and you can't say squat about it.

    Those who protested 'Back of the Bus' fully expected to be arrested and sometimes were. The No-Patdowns folks seem to want it both ways.
     
    #93 NiteShift, Dec 24, 2010
  14. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    One last time. Heller was limited because DC IS NOT A STATE! Therefore the Heller decision did not incorporate the 2nd amendment to the states. It took McDonald to do that! Now that the 2nd is incorporated the states can no longer completely ban keeping (owning) or bearing (carrying) arms.

    So, it is obvious to anyone with at least a 3rd grade education that one or the other, open or concealed carry, must be allowed.

    This is not rocket science so I fail to understand why you are being so obtuse unless it is just your inability to see plain simple facts that disagree with your liberal political philosophy.
     
    #94 TCassidy, Dec 24, 2010
  15. carpro

    carpro Well-Known Member
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    No Kiddin'.:rolleyes:

    Another admission that your sweeping statements were simply wrong.

    The problem here is your unwillingness to admit you made an overly broad statement and just can't admit it.

    Not a problem. One gets used to that sort of thing here.
     
    #95 carpro, Dec 24, 2010
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  16. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Fine. You have no clue what you are talking about and when it is explained to you, you still don't understand.

    One gets used to that sort of thing here.
     
    #96 TCassidy, Dec 24, 2010
  17. poncho

    poncho Well-Known Member

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    Evidently John Pistole disagrees with you.


    So long as you stay inside the "free speech zone". And don't party in the parkinglot after the game or you might get killed by a pepperball fired by a legally appointed police officer. The first amendment doesn't protect anyone from anything. The bill of rights doesn't protect anyone from an authoritarian government who see it's own citizens as a threat to it's security. Unless people stand up to it and say enough is enough.

    It seems there are those who get upset when that starts to happen. Mostly folks who think an authoritarian government can save them from a threat that turns out to be more fantasy than reality.

    How euphemistic. Seeing as how it's been shown the TSA has had sex offenders, pedophiles and other perverts in it's ranks no one can say for certain if you've just been patted down or molested.

    Anyway . . .

    You can go right on arguing in favor of a failed system built on a phoney threat all you want though. I guess you got that right.

    Before I get out of this thread I would like to offer you one more little taste of reality. http://www.youtube.com/user/TheSOTTReport

    :wavey:
     
    #97 poncho, Dec 24, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 24, 2010
  18. SRBooe

    SRBooe New Member

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    Well, I thank you for your posts. Once you quit beating your head into this particular wall, you'll feel better. I learned early on what this guy's philosophy was. There is no cure for it.
     
    #98 SRBooe, Dec 25, 2010
  19. NiteShift

    NiteShift New Member

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    Upset? I'm not upset. That would be you guys. Upset about phoney threats to your freedom.

    Most major cities in this country are home to gangs made up of illegal immigrants, or the children of illegal immigrants. It wouldn't be safe to "stand up" to them, yet you thump your chest about how you defy your government. Whee.

    I'll say one thing though; The Truther stuff, the North American Union stuff, the "FEMA is training pastors to become secret police enforcers" stuff just didn't gain much traction around here. But you have finally hit on a winner! :wavey:
     
    #99 NiteShift, Dec 25, 2010
  20. billwald

    billwald New Member

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    >It is legal to openly carry a loaded firearm except where the US Constitution allows the right to be restricted or prohibited.

    Every state constitution is different.

    The 911 incident has probably cost the taxpayers ten times the actual damages and destruction done by the attack. In a couple of hours a few people fought and won a world war, bringing down the US empire.
     
    #100 billwald, Dec 25, 2010
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