Featured The Sabbath was not Changed

MY, <Biblical gynastics>? I wasn’t too bad a ‘gymnast’, when I was young. At 45 still could do grand circles and somersaults on the floor. [Very male chauvinistic with no feminist airs.] Never thought I could be considered a <Biblical gynast> …

If my ability <to deny these things> attest to my proficiency as a ‘Biblical gymnast’, then I really feel proud of myself. No thankful for a plain “thus it is written … not, proud of myself, definitely, NO!

In Acts 20:7 “the First Day of the week” is NOT the worship day. The Perfect Participle ‘sunehgmenohn humohn’ DICTATES “The disciples having been assembling together BEFORE for to Eat the Lord’s Supper, on the First Day of the week having been assembling together STILL, Paul discussed matters with them …” Sabbath’s Lord Supper is presupposed.

In 1Corinthians 15-16, Paul wrote his sermon as if he was preaching. And like everywhere he proclaimed the Gospel of Christ he would close his sermon ---e.g., as per 15:58.
Then before the congregation would disperse, Paul would make announcements concerning urgent matters and inform the congregations on his plans for the future – exactly as recorded in chapter 16. Therefore, in chapter 16, Paul tells the believers how they must plan and save up for future collection of charity for the victims of the famine in Judea. He told the Congregations after the Sabbath services, “On the First Day of the week, let everyone of you by himself put aside in store …”. Sabbath’s worship hour is presupposed.

It is amazing you dare contradict so directly the detail contained in 15:58 to 16:3. It is wholly unfounded your claim, <<1 Cor. 16:1-2 refers to the first day of the week as a GENERAL REFERENCE POINT for the Corinthians as the day when they meet just as in Acts 20:7.>>

Shame on you! For Paul ordered “Upon the First Day of the week [NOT on the Sabbath Day!] let EVERYONE of you by HIMSELF, STORE, as God give prosperity. That there won’t be ingathering (only) when I will come … I will SEND to bring your liberality.”
All as it were from the pulpit on Sabbath Day announced “concerning the collection” on an UNKNOWN FUTURE date, for which every individual at his own house had to work out his own prosperity and accordingly had to store his contribution in readiness for when Paul’s delegates may arrive to collect everyone’s at his own home. NO Sunday service charity collection is supposed; it’s a complete untruth and a shame for the hawkers in its wares.

 

If I may intrude …

The impression I as an 'out-stander' get from this challenge to poor old Bob, is that it is no challenge to him as Guppie wants him to believe.

My impression is Gup is in conversation with himself; and if not with himself, in conversation between himself and supposedly God.

Well, my advice to you Gup?

Wait for resurrection day.

I personally would not wait for judgment day; that is far too risky. Especially with so much unequivocal affirmative witness in favour of the "Sabbath Day's Rest still valid for the People of God SINCE JESUS GAVE THEM REST"!

You are of the People of God, aren't you, Gup?

.

 

I don't mind the intrusion. The question is so that BobRyan can rationally consider his motivation for performing works of The Law. Since he agrees with me that no one is saved by works of the law, then it is inconsistent and irrational for him to fear that he should lose his salvation through failing to perform works of the law.

If his motivation for following the 4th commandment and observing sabbaths is to avoid damnation, I would say he's missing the mark. Salvation and justification are an inheritance for those who qualify as sons of God through faith in Jesus Christ. Since it is an inheritance, it is not something that can be gained or lost by our works. God promised Abraham that all of his spiritual descendants would inherit this promise.

However, if his motivation for keeping the sabbath day is his love for God, and the things of God I would let him be, albeit with an encouragement not to inflict that on others.

Col 2:16 Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day—
17 things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.​

I'm not exactly sure what "people of God" are. Is there a scripture that uses that phrase? I am a child of God - a joint heir with a Christ.... a believer in the gospel of Jesus Christ - the spiritual seed of Abraham... these are Biblical terms that I can affirm.

 

Well, can't help but like you GE but your Sabbath position is simply wrong. Traos like Corinth was a predominantly Gentile church and "evening" was Roman reckoning of Sunday evening rather than the Jewish reckoning. They had been gathered since Sunday Morning and continued right on into the evening and did not leave until Monday morning. Sunday morning they gathered for the Lord's Supper and continued meeting throughout the day as the Lord's Day or the day of worship.

Neither was the first epistle of Corinthians or the Second written to be a sermon with closing remarks. It was a letter that addressed specific problems and offerings for the poor in Jerualem was one of them. Paul merely declared the regular day of worship when they gathered together as in Acts 20:7 to be also the day offerings were brought into the "store" house.

 

No slip up at all but clearly intentionally because if he had added "of the week" then he would have violated His own law in applying it to other days of the week in Levitius 23 and to the first day of the week in the New Testament. So, no slip up but clear intent to provide a PRINCIPLE that can be EQUALLY applied to other days of the week by arbitrary choice - divine choice.

No slip up at all. Here the PRINCIPLE is APPLIED to a specific day of the week just as the same PRINICIPLE is APPLIED to other days of the week in Leviticus 23 and to the resurrection day in Psalm 118:24/Acts 4:10-11.

No, He provided a PRINCIPLE with APPLICATION - period However, the PRINCIPLE is sufficient broad for DIFFERENT APPLICATIONS and the proof is Leviticus 23,25; Psa. 118:24 and Rev. 1:10.

 

I do not say Bob Ryan is not wrong; but I am sure he is not so unintelligent as to think or teach or believe whatever you have said or have tried to say here.

 

No; you try - unsuccessfully - find justification of or for YOUR, <ARBITRARY>, <application> of the 'Sabbath Commandment' and or "the day The Seventh Day Rest-Day of the LORD GOD" -- FIRST AND FOREMOST -- to your, <ARBITRARY> selected pet text, Mark 16:9.

For certain I myself am of the conviction that application of the 'Sabbath Commandment' and or "the day The Seventh Day Rest-Day of the LORD GOD" is valid, correct and faithful in the cases of Psalm 118 and Revelation 1:10.

But it is unlawful and unfaithful to TRUTH to make the same 'applications' to VAGUE Scriptures like <<Leviticus 23,25>> or IRRELEVANT Scriptures like 1Corinthians 16:2 or Mark 16:9 where ‘application’ IN JESUS CHRIST is out of the question, but actually applies on NATURAL <basis> and <principle> namely that of ‘yearly’ that is to say ‘seasons’ and ‘moons / months’, ‘basis’ and ‘principle’ --- or, in the case of Mark 16:9, on the <basis> and <principle> of “a day of the week” : “the First Day-of-the-week”—“first-with REFERENCE TR FROM, the Seventh Day Sabbath-Rest-Day or and its <Law> the Fourth Commandment—which pin-points both the First Day as the First Day after the Sabbath, and the Sabbath as the day before the First Day-OF-THE-WEEK.

<ARBITRARY> is WILD; is out of order; is out of control; and is UN-‘REST’-FULL. The day The Seventh Day Rest-Day-Sabbath of the LORD GOD <in principle> is the opposite of such things.

 

<<by arbitrary choice - divine choice>>!!

Are you Muslim? an Islamist?

<<if he [God] had added "of the week" then he would have violated His own law in applying it to other days of the week in Levitius 23>>

That is you, Biblicist, AFFIRMING God did NOT <apply it> -- that is, God neither <applied> <the week> nor "the Sabbath" --- neither its <basis> nor its <principle>, <<to other days of the week in Levitius 23>>.

Eventually it had to come out.

 

If this …

… is not the DIRECT CONTRADICTION of this …

… then what is a contradiction, and what, a SELF-DESTRUCTIVE CONTRADICTION?!

 

Lekker!

Tell him!

Beautiful!

 

So which day do you go to church on?

 

There is no contradiction at all between what I said in either quote. You are just failing to consider the carefully chosen words and reading into it what you like instead of considering what I carefully stated.

I make a careful distinction between PRINCIPLE and Application. If God would have added "of the week" it would have contradicted his VARIOUS applications to other days of the week. That does not mean the particular application to the seventh day "of the week" is wrong, but is in keeping with his VARIOUS applications of that PRINCIPLE. Now, read it again and carefully notice exactly what I said in both quotes.

 

My question about what day you WENT to church on was actually a trick question

" See, for that the Lord hath given you the sabbath, therefore he giveth you on the sixth day the bread of two days; abide ye every man in his place, let no man go out of his place on the seventh day." Exodus 16:29

As Jews, my family never left the house during Shabbat.

 

Again, nothing in Genesis 2:3 says anything about any day "of the week." Genesis 2:3 is a faithful record of what God did in six days and then rested on the seventh day.

Wrong again! We live in the Post-cross era and God has clearly designated the resurrection day on the first day "of the week" (Psa. 118:20-24/Acts 4:10-11) and commanded it to be observed ("made" translates same hebrew word used in the 4th commanded as "observe"). This is the day the Lord hath made to be observed and we find it faithfully observed in the New Testament record (Acts 20:7; 1 Cor. 16:1-2) as "the Lord's Day" (Rev. 1:10) and consistently as the "Lord's Day" right up to Constantine. It is the first Sabbath in a new series of Sabbaths (Mk. 16:9 "proto" "sabbatou) and it is the better Sabbath day observance now for the people of God (Heb. 4:9) due to the better and greater work of redemption by Christ (Heb. 4:10,14) that still points to a yet future fulfillment (Heb. 4:11) of a new heaven and a new earth in the eighth and eternal millennium where once again God can look upon all he has created and say "very good."

I never said He did as you imagine I did. The fourth commandment presents the principle based upon what God did in Genesis 2:3-4 and God applies that principle to various days of the week and you cannot possibly deny that as it is spelled out in Leviticus 23. This demonstrates that the principle of six days preceding and following the seventh day Sabbath is sufficient broad enough to include these various applications of Sabbath law. The idea of a "sabbath" originates with the fourth commandment not somewhere else.

The seventh day "of the week" is not inconsistent with the sabbath Law as a Principle. It is a reasonable application and from all the evidence it seems that this is how it was applied by God to Israel in the Old Testament. However, the same law is consistent with a change of APPLICATION (not law) to the first day "of the week" in the New Testament since all applications by God are arbitrary as there is nothing sacred about any 24 hour period of time. God can sovereignly apply Sabbath law to the FIXED DATES in the Messianic Feasts which fall on various days "of the week" as He can apply it to the seventh day "of the week" or the first day "of the week" if that is His choice.

God calls upon Israel to remember the Creation pattern of six days preceding the Seventh day Sabbath and then provides specific application to them "Tomorrow is the Sabbath..." However, in the Messianic Feasts he demonstrates that the Sabbath is much broader in application to any limited day "of the week" as He applies to various days of the week and various longer periods of time (Lev. 25/Gen. 2:4). However, you and GE are attempting to limit in APPLICATION what God does not limit in application simply because you fail to see that the PRINCIPLE of the Sabbath Law is broader than you choose to interpret it. It is sufficiently BROAD to justify God's various applications and your intepretation does not allow for that and therefore condemns God's own applications of the Sabbath law.

Couldn't agree more!!!

Hint - Never demand an interpetation of a law that forces you to condemn God's own application of that Law.

 

<<the original 7th day as God gave it>> IS NOT <<Saturday>>!