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Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Internet Theologian, Aug 28, 2016.
One major thing is he would want is the focus off of the Scriptures. Apostasy in action:
"Sacred men, sacred text and sacred places need to be removed from the community movement that is the church. These 3 sacred things must be replaced by love. Love towards God and love towards people" - Andy Stanley
This is why the USA churches are in such disarray. Give me the bible but no theology please is the soup de jour.
"And will not endure sound doctrine". You know they loathe hearing that God-breathed text.
IIRC, Mr. Stanley was teetering upon [email protected]
Does Andy Stanley not grasp that the sacred text, God's holy Word, is where we GET the concept of loving God and loving each other?
Without the scriptures, we would not KNOW those two commandments.
Without the scriptures, we would not know WHY these were the greatest commandments.
And without the scriptures, we would not know HOW to fulfill these commandments.
This saddens me.
The "Andy Stanley's" in the USA churches is what is giving us all a black eye.
The logical conclusion of his apostate point of view is there is no need for Scriptures, all we need is his version and definition of love. Tyndale, Coverdale, others...if they only knew.
It is the scriptures which tell us how ruined man is without God, how we can be reconciled back to God, and how to live Godly. The scriptures also tell us God's hatred towards sin sinners, and the eternal consequences of those who fail to repent of them. But let's lay them aside and talk love.
Just think, William Tyndale died foolishly. He was strangled to death and then burned at the stake when all he needed to do was talk love.
And without that foundation (your portion I underlined), the love OF God, the love FOR God, and the love (as Christ loved) of other people, is sorely weakened.
I was doing a personal Bible Study last year on loving God with all your heart - [it took me a few weeks to complete it], and one of the things that drove me to sobbing and wretched tears is the fact that I had to come to grips with the totality of how God loved me FIRST - and loved me enough to save me - and cleanse me of the sin that separated me from him to begin with.
It is not just sorely weakened Sister...it is undermined and taken away. Without the scriptures, no one can be saved. The gospel is contained in them. But I truly appreciate your post.
This is what happens when the Sufficiency of Scripture is not taught and believed. As Justin Peter's rightly points out in his "Clouds without Waters" seminar we have won the battle for inerrancy but we are losing the war for Sufficiency and most churches don't even know that war is being waged. Of course the Scripture is not understood by non-Christians, because the things of God are spiritually discerned.
The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned. 1 Cor 2:14
He has, in essence, attempted to kill evangelism as we know it today. How are ppl saved? Via the gospel. Where is the gospel proclaimed? In the scriptures...Romans 1:16, Ephesians 1:13, 1 Corinthians 1:18-21, 15:1-4 &c.
He has, in essence, defeated his pastorship. Kudos Mr. Stanley.
Husband and wife doing a remodeling of their house and conversing as they attempt to open up the kitchen and living room..
Wife: "But honey, that is a loadbearing wall. If you tear it down and don't put a support beam in its place the roof will collapse."
Husband: "Nonsense. That wall does not need to be there. Besides, look at all the open area we're going to have. Love will hold the roof in place."
Three months later...
"By the grace God has given me, I laid a foundation as a wise builder, and someone else is building on it. But each one should build with care. For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ."[1 Corinthians 3:11-12]
How did Paul establish the foundation that is Jesus Christ? Via the word of God he wrote under the Spirit's inspiration.
"For I am the least of the apostles and do not even deserve to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. But by the grace of God I am what I am, and his grace to me was not without effect. No, I worked harder than all of them—yet not I, but the grace of God that was with me. Whether, then, it is I or they, this is what we preach, and this is what you believed.[1 Corinthians 15:9-11]
Those who believed were those who heard them preaching God's word, the scriptures. Mr. Stanley is attempting to sweep the work of the Apostles and those who wrote the OT right out the front door. Forget about the baby. He is tossing it, the wash rag, soap, water, and basin out the window.
It's like you can see where a celebrity was photo'd leaving a church service and then later during the week carousing with ppl at a nightclub. They don't want to be taught. They want a country club atmosphere where all is fine and dandy, as sweet as cotton candy.
The central or core idea of scripture is Jesus Christ. All scripture is useful, profitable, but if we spend too much time on end times or Angelology, and not enough of Christology and Soterology, we may be missing the Evangelical boat. The old missing the forest for the trees error. Spending time debating how many angels can dance of the head of a pin, might be off the mark.
We should be able to discuss priorities without stacking straw and lighting matches around the feet of those who think our focus should be sharpened.
These types of 'ministries' will become more popular as socialism and political correctness advance. These 'ministers' remind me of the same under Hitler that opposed truth and supported the Nazi Party. I sense a great disdain in Mr. Stanley as he talks of small churches and what he would do with them. His arrogance and self-deception, and trivialization of the Word of God are duly noted.