Alleged Climate Change Hoax

[Bro. Curtis]

http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/hadley_hacked#63657

 

[Revmitchell]

Not only does this confirm my suspicion about "climate change" but also about science in general and so called peer reviewed papers of any sort. When things like vaccines and evolution are being pushed with such viciousness and opposing information is being repressed like with climate change then I doubt the validity of the science and claims.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

I would think that if it were discovered that the Earth wasn't warming, and there was no climate change crisis, that it would be greeted as good news. Not hidden and lied about.

 

[Revmitchell]

I would think that if it were discovered that the Earth wasn't warming, and there was no climate change crisis, that it would be greeted as good news. Not hidden and lied about.

Unless you need that fear to gain control over people's lives.

 

[HankD]

There is indeed climate change.

In fact it changes several times a day here in the State of Washington.

HankD

 

[windcatcher]

Not only does this confirm my suspicion about "climate change" but also about science in general and so called peer reviewed papers of any sort. When things like vaccines and evolution are being pushed with such viciousness and opposing information is being repressed like with climate change then I doubt the validity of the science and claims.

I'm so glad you point this out, Revmitchell. I've members of my family as close as siblings and next generation who are 'professionals' in the field of health care.... namely a pharmacist, a nurse, a doctor and a therapist.... (We could possibly open our own clinic.....eh?? ha! If we'd all live in same area.) Anyway, they are so busy with their families..... the doctor and physical therapist are both young mothers... and so close to the roots of having received their education and having accepted everything the way they were taught that none of them ever express a doubt about anything or question the research. It may also be that when they were at university, their time was so consumed that they had little time to advantage themselves of published works contained in the library which might challenge them with issues and present controversial findings. It is also possible that such material may not be as available as it was at the Junior College which I attended..... a difference of 30 years and changes in library investments and collections??? Neither am I aware of their active.... make that 'polictical' ....involvement in their professional organizations as I was in my first 10 yrs. of professional practice.

If the members of the BB ever get the chance to see Ben Steyn's (sp?) documentary "EXPELLED" about evolution and the scientist who are or were evolutionist..... but presented even the suggestion of intelligent design when their theories drop them off a cliff with no other way to explain...... I HIGHLY recommend this documentary. Although he is Jewish, not Christian, he does present his interviews from highly recognized and esteemed evolutionist who even present their own contridictions while they also support the black balling of others who have been ousted from positions by their community of scientist for even wavering on points within their theory..... he does present the case from the pov of intelligent design.... not so much the scientific dispute but the political and professional expulsion of scientific talent from laboratory, education, study grants and other positions of authority or print.

The ethics, morals, and behaviors of people come largely from what they believe. If a person is an atheist or an agnostic.... they may be a 'good' seeming person.... they may have personal principals and standards which guide them and set boundaries which they will not cross.... but, like the Christian who is worldly and may feel the coercion and bow to his weakness and detray the standards which were his guide.... these others can do the same. In the absence of the holy spirit to bring them back to repentance.... these have a mercurial set from which their conscience absolves themselves should they vere from the truth to skew data or eliminate or remove findings or when finding the parameters of their study produces failure, they discard what they learn and reset the parameters to control the outcome in the favor of their own advancement or the success of their production.

And, unfortunately, these are the very 'authorities' to whom the MSM (mainstream media) and the public look to and trust for specialized information and guidance for our welfare. Because we live in a 'free' nation, we believe it is automatic that we are given the truth about everything or would have controversies exposed and other sides presented. (Shall I say investigative journalism is almost dead?)

The documentary "EXPELLED" presents very well a look from the inside of scientific professionalism, how our own lack of inquiry and acceptance of specialist/authorities in various fields is controlled and those with conflicting knowledge or data.... or questions regarding methods and candor are eliminated/ silenced from discussion...... even ridiculed.


-------------------------
Another point can also be made.... regarding our faith, the Bible, and what we believe. If we lived in a society where we either had no Bible to read or it was only available at times or in pieces..... where would we get the truth, the gospel? If our only authorities were atheist, or teachers of the koran, or buddhism, or a witchdoctor/shamen..... where would we get truth? As society is molded by its instructions and those who are promoted to authority.... if we close off our minds to accepting what we are told..... and stopped that gift God gave us to inquire and ask questions and think ......... how would we know truth. Even in the Bible, God allows, even, in some cases, He encourages questions..... sincere questions and gives answers... though he leaves the choices to us. Perhaps it is our greatest laziness that we get 'too busy' and cease to 'seek', 'ask', 'knock'.... and fall back on going along with the crowd..... wherever the crowd may lead. Narrow is the way. Ridiculed in the way, Shamed by others who aren't 'in the way'. Narrow is the way...... and few there be who find it. Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life...... no man enters except in and through Him.

It may be convenient to compartmentalize our life.... accept somethings without question cause it is profitable in some way or another.... and spiritually seek after God.... but the Bible plainly teaches.... and our own nature clearly proves.... that the natural nature of man is to that which serves the self interest... even when on a path to distruction. We should neither trust without question another man or his answers in the way we trust God to be true always.... nor should we trust ourselves entirely, when we're made of flesh and flesh is an appetite which serves its own desires.

 

[Revmitchell]

I'm so glad you point this out, Revmitchell. I've members of my family as close as siblings and next generation who are 'professionals' in the field of health care.... namely a pharmacist, a nurse, a doctor and a therapist.... (We could possibly open our own clinic.....eh?? ha! If we'd all live in same area.) Anyway, they are so busy with their families..... the doctor and physical therapist are both young mothers... and so close to the roots of having received their education and having accepted everything the way they were taught that none of them ever express a doubt about anything or question the research. It may also be that when they were at university, their time was so consumed that they had little time to advantage themselves of published works contained in the library which might challenge them with issues and present controversial findings. It is also possible that such material may not be as available as it was at the Junior College which I attended..... a difference of 30 years and changes in library investments and collections??? Neither am I aware of their active.... make that 'polictical' ....involvement in their professional organizations as I was in my first 10 yrs. of professional practice.

If the members of the BB ever get the chance to see Ben Steyn's (sp?) documentary "EXPELLED" about evolution and the scientist who are or were evolutionist..... but presented even the suggestion of intelligent design when their theories drop them off a cliff with no other way to explain...... I HIGHLY recommend this documentary. Although he is Jewish, not Christian, he does present his interviews from highly recognized and esteemed evolutionist who even present their own contridictions while they also support the black balling of others who have been ousted from positions by their community of scientist for even wavering on points within their theory..... he does present the case from the pov of intelligent design.... not so much the scientific dispute but the political and professional expulsion of scientific talent from laboratory, education, study grants and other positions of authority or print.

Yep and even on this board these so called peer reviewed papers are used to bat down controversial views on things like vaccines and evolution so as not to have to be confronted with it. There are one or two who post very irregular but will come out of the wood work when such subjects come up to flex their psuedo-intellectual muscles and demonize any opposing views. And there are one or two who post regularly in the same fashion. But I do not buy it and I buy it even less after this. Science and research are only as good as those conducting it and I believe to many have unethical motives.

 

[carpro]

I would think that if it were discovered that the Earth wasn't warming, and there was no climate change crisis, that it would be greeted as good news. Not hidden and lied about.

The reason is money, pure and simple

The transfer of wealth is behind the global warming scam and always has been. It's impossible for the scammers to give up on their dream.

 

[Gold Dragon]

http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/hadley_hacked#63657

The article that the blogger takes that quote from has Jones' response to his "hide the decline" e-mail.

Investigate Magazine - Climate Centre Hacked [pdf]
...

TGIF asked Jones about the controversial email discussing hiding “the decline”, and Jones explained he was not trying to mislead.

“No, that’s completely wrong. In the sense that they’re talking about two different things here. They’re talking about the instrumental data which is unaltered – but they’re talking about proxy data going further back in time, a thousand years, and it’s just about how you add on the last few years, because when you get proxy data you sample things like tree rings and ice cores, and they don’t always have the last few years. So one way is to add on the instrumental data for the last few years.”

Jones told TGIF he had no idea what me meant by using the words “hide the decline”.

“That was an email from ten years ago. Can you remember the exact context of what you wrote ten years ago?”

The adding in the real temps is adding the instrumental data to the proxy data (tree rings, ice cores).

Here is the e-mail being discussed.

...
I’ve just completed Mike’s Nature trick of adding in the real temps to each series for the last 20 years (ie from 1981 onwards) amd from 1961 for Keith’s to hide the decline. Mike’s series got the annual land and marine values while the other two got April-Sept for NH land N of 20N. The latter two are real for 1999, while the estimate for 1999 for NH combined is +0.44C wrt 61-90. The Global estimate for 1999 with data through Oct is +0.35C cf. 0.57 for 1998.
...

 

[Gold Dragon]

... double post ...

 

[Gold Dragon]

http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/hadley_hacked#63657

A second e-mail discussed was from Oct, 2009.

Well I have my own article on where the heck is global warming ? We are asking that here in Boulder where we have broken records the past two days for the coldest days on record. We had 4 inches of snow. The high the last 2 days was below 30F and the normal is 69F, and it smashed the previous records for these days by 10F. The low was about 18F and also a record low, well below the previous record low.

This is January weather (see the Rockies baseball playoff game was canceled on saturday and then played last night in below freezing weather).
Trenberth, K. E., 2009: An imperative for climate change planning: tracking Earth’s global energy. Current Opinion in Environmental Sustainability, 1, 19-27, doi:10.1016/j.cosust.2009.06.001. [1][PDF] (A PDF of the published version can be obtained from the author.)
***

The fact is that we can’t account for the lack of warming at the moment and it is a travesty that we can’t. The CERES data published in the August BAMS 09 supplement on 2008 shows there should be even more warming: but the data are surely wrong. Our observing system is inadequate.***

It looks like here we see someone who believes it should be warming more than it is. He believes the data must be wrong. But that is what CRU has been publishing about the global temperature over the last ten years. That it is plateauing instead of warming. Link So while some of their members may be frustrated that the data doesn't show the warming trend they think should exist, it doesn't affect their published data. This is a mark of letting scientific objectivity override your subjective opinions.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

I'm sure that's why it was buried.

 

[Gold Dragon]

I'm sure that's why it was buried.

Can you clarify what you are referring to? What was buried? What do you think is not the reason it was buried?

 

[Bro. Curtis]

The linked article will tell you what was buried.

 

[Gold Dragon]

http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/hadley_hacked#63657

Other than those two, the rest of the e-mails that the skeptics on this website think are indications of conspiracy are really much ado about nothing.

There was another e-mail in a Telegraph article that was worth discussing. It was about an approach to peer review.

“This was the danger of always criticising the skeptics for not publishing in the “peer-reviewed literature”. Obviously, they found a solution to that–take over a journal! So what do we do about this? I think we have to stop considering “Climate Research” as a legitimate peer-reviewed journal. Perhaps we should encourage our colleagues in the climate research community to no longer submit to, or cite papers in, this journal. We would also need to consider what we tell or request of our more reasonable colleagues who currently sit on the editorial board…What do others think?”

“I will be emailing the journal to tell them I’m having nothing more to do with it until they rid themselves of this troublesome editor.”

“It results from this journal having a number of editors. The responsible one for this is a well-known skeptic in NZ. He has let a few papers through by Michaels and Gray in the past. I’ve had words with Hans von Storch about this, but got nowhere. Another thing to discuss in Nice !”

This person thinks that Climate Research is a biased journal because the editorial board has a well known New Zealand global warming skeptic. He is asking for opinion on whether this is reason enough for others to boycott the journal which is something he is planning to do as an individual. I think this is a reasonable discussion. If the supreme court started to get stacked with clearly abortion friendly judges, would you consider their rulings on abortion to be legitimate?

Just an fyi that Patrick Michaels and William Gray both believe that the globe is warming. Michaels agrees that it is caused by humans but does not think it is a serious issue and may be a good thing. Gray does not believe it is caused by humans.

 

[Gold Dragon]

The linked article will tell you what was buried.

Are you talking about the e-mail telling people to delete e-mails?

I don't know what they are trying to hide in those e-mails and they may get in trouble with the law for it. But the e-mails we do have do not suggest that published data had been tampered with. It appears there is information Jones doesn't want outsiders to see for whatever reason. It sounds to me like the issues are more financial and about ownership of data and models. Maybe those deleted e-mails and data would say that published data is wrong but we can only speculate at this point.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

Or maybe they were deleted because they don't support the global climate change panic.

 

[billwald]

http://www.scientificamerican.com/subscribe/sub_search.cfm?ec=ggl07

(You gots to steal your own copy)

Methane hydrates also a hoax? People on Coast To Coast AM www.coasttocoastam.com been talking about them for a year or so.

 

[shodan]

The ClimateGate tremor has generated a tidal wave on the internet.
Here are some key points.
A nice summary,[ usually one line with link to the email] and catagorizing of the emails
[eg. Wrong data and practices;Fixing the data; Deleting the data; Wrongdoing; etc HERE:
http://ecotretas.blogspot.com/2009/11/rolo-compressor-de-verdades.html

FOLLOW THE MONEY, here;
http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/11/cru_files_betray_climate_alarm.html

And for continued updates on sources:

http://www.climatedepot.com/

 

[carpro]

I'm sure that's why it was buried.

This is going to be big.

I watched 2 interviews with global warming advocates yesterday and they were absolutely livid...that this information got out.

Extremely agitated, almost incoherent at times, they blamed Bush.:laugh: