no teachers show up for "back to school night"

[matt wade]

Actually in the Detroit school system they did it a little different.

The last time that the teachers were out on strike for a couple of months - when they finally came back to work they took attendance twice a day...

And counted it as two days !!! :laugh:

Have you ever been to Detroit? Every day you make it without being mugged or shot is counted as a double blessing! If you make it through 30 days there, you'll feel like more than 60 have been stolen from your life.

 

[targus]

Have you ever been to Detroit? Every day you make it without being mugged or shot is counted as a double blessing! If you make it through 30 days there, you'll feel like more than 60 have been stolen from your life.

I lived in Detroit during my highschool years - about two blocks from thesite of the blind pig raid that started the riots of the summer of 1971.

 

[rbell]

Showing up for teacher's night has nothing to do with showing up for work. Things like teacher's night are just one of the many many things teachers end up doing that they technically don't have to, and for which they are technically not paid.

The one night per year for the teacher to meet parents, and they can't show up without "getting paid for it?" Please. Teachers work hard--but so do most folks. There are few of us that do good jobs at anything that don't "give extra." Cry me a river.

What you suggest would be the ruin of public education. Maybe thats not problem for you. If so though, why would you even care what the union does in cases like these?

Easy: In my state, 80% of all tax money goes down the education rathole. And every year, they want more. So whether my kids go, its lots of my money. I have a say.

Those people weren't paying for their time that night. That the teachers might have done this without warning is a problem, I would agree (the article gives no clue about that one way or the other - did I mention the article was skewed?). But the issue is almost certainly a lot more involved than you are representing it.

Given the standard behavior of teacher's unions (particularly ones in more populous areas), I doubt there's much more here than meets the eye. They were told not to show up due to a contract dispute, and they fell in lock step with their union bosses.

 

[FR7 Baptist]

I'm not a big fan of public workers going on strike. I know it's illegal for Federal employees to do so. When I worked for the Census Bureau, we all had to take an oath not to strike against the government, not that a strike would be possible since we were non-union temporary workers. My point is we cannot let labor unions hold our public services hostage. However, I can imagine a ten-year younger version of me enjoying a teacher strike very much.

 

[Deacon]

After three years of stalemate the parents are fed up.

On Thursday evening there will be a meeting between teachers union officials and the district administrators.

Parents and concerned taxpayers will show up in force to present a presence.

I'll keep you up to date.

***************
Here's my guess at the final resolution.

Teachers will get back pay of 2% per year for the past 3 years to cover the raises they didn't get.

There will be a three year 3% per year increase in salaries.

Teachers will be required to cover 5% of their healthcare costs.

Those teachers that retire now will have their healthcare costs fully covered until death.

Rob

 

[dwmoeller1]

The one night per year for the teacher to meet parents, and they can't show up without "getting paid for it?" Please. Teachers work hard--but so do most folks. There are few of us that do good jobs at anything that don't "give extra." Cry me a river.

Again, I don't know the specifics of the particular situation, however...

Most teachers are already under paid AND they give up many, many extra hours throughout the year (and that doesn't even count the countless hours spent thinking and mulling over various issues in the classroom) beyond the time they are paid for. Few professions give up more extra time voluntarily. Why? Because most teachers are in their job for idealistic reasons. However, sometimes parents and/or administration can take advantage of this willingness to go the extra mile, or, at least, begin to expect it as a given.

I don't know if that was the case here, but to portray it as simplistic as you do is unreasonable. As in any job situation where the clientèle and/or bosses begin to take advantage of the worker's normal willingness to sacrifice, sometimes the worker says "Enough!" and refrains from doing the extras they would normally do.

Given the standard behavior of teacher's unions (particularly ones in more populous areas), I doubt there's much more here than meets the eye. They were told not to show up due to a contract dispute, and they fell in lock step with their union bosses.

Possible. Just as likely there is more to it as well. I know from having seen it from the inside. Can't really tell from the slanted news report. From what little I have been able to find, it looks like the admin is asking them to take what would work out to be a 50% reduction in wages. That right there tells me there is probably something else going on. No way to tell since it seems only one side of the story is getting told.

 

[targus]

Does anyone know the specifics of the expired contract in the school district in question?

In the school district where we live and in the disctrict where my wife works the contract states that the teachers are obligated to attend certain after hour school functions including the parent teacher night.

It may be case here that these teachers are compensated for showing up.

But absent the actual contract agreement - who knows?

 

[padredurand]

These teachers are being paid handsomely.
Average teacher salary: $73345. Teacher salary range: $23163 - $90803.
And that's will full health care provisions.

Not bad - - no holidays, no night shift, weekends and summers off, and tenure to-boot.

Averaging $73,345 for working 185 days year? My milk of human kindness is curdled. My sympathy button is inop. Won't go to "Back to School Night" because you aren't getting paid? YOU'RE ON SALARY! You won't go because you're not getting paid EXTRA! Union or not, a teacher that cared about the kids and education would have been there.

 

[rbell]

methinks dwmoeller is a teacher's union member.

 

[billwald]

The government (or anyone) requiring employees to work without being paid is a form of slavery.

There isn't enough money in the world to induce me to teach junior high in an inner city public school. They should get teacher's pay plus prison guard's pay.

 

[dwmoeller1]

methinks dwmoeller is a teacher's union member.

Nope. Former teacher but never a member of the union.

 

[dwmoeller1]

Averaging $73,345 for working 185 days year? My milk of human kindness is curdled. My sympathy button is inop. Won't go to "Back to School Night" because you aren't getting paid? YOU'RE ON SALARY! You won't go because you're not getting paid EXTRA! Union or not, a teacher that cared about the kids and education would have been there.

Saw those numbers but could find nothing to confirm one way or the others. Given how numbers get so easily abused in a debate like this (said as a former math teacher) it would be unreasonable to accept this number unquestioning.

I will admit that, if accurate though, it would put a different perspective on the incident. For one, my former district doesn't pay any teacher except maybe the one's with decades of experience and a doctorate that much for the base 185 days of work.

At the same time, if the figure I found of their health insurance costs averaging 26k is accurate, then that also puts a different light on issue. The admin would effectively be asking the teachers to take a cut of 50% to their overall pay and benefits. Regardless of whether the teachers are being overpaid or not, their reaction to a 50% reduction in pay/benefits in (evidently) one fell swoop becomes more understandable.

Like I said, more than likely there is more to the story than the one-sided reporting I can find is telling. And thats true regardless of whether or not you end up agreeing or disagreeing with what the teachers did.

 

[targus]

Saw those numbers but could find nothing to confirm one way or the others. Given how numbers get so easily abused in a debate like this (said as a former math teacher) it would be unreasonable to accept this number unquestioning.

I will admit that, if accurate though, it would put a different perspective on the incident. For one, my former district doesn't pay any teacher except maybe the one's with decades of experience and a doctorate that much for the base 185 days of work.

At the same time, if the figure I found of their health insurance costs averaging 26k is accurate, then that also puts a different light on issue. The admin would effectively be asking the teachers to take a cut of 50% to their overall pay and benefits. Regardless of whether the teachers are being overpaid or not, their reaction to a 50% reduction in pay/benefits in (evidently) one fell swoop becomes more understandable.

Like I said, more than likely there is more to the story than the one-sided reporting I can find is telling. And thats true regardless of whether or not you end up agreeing or disagreeing with what the teachers did.

My wife is a teacher - 95K per year - about 28K per year for health care benefits - will collect about 45% of her final salary for life upon retirement. 15 days sick and personal pay which accumulate if not used. When she retires next year she will get a check for about 24K for her unused sick and personal days.

She works 185 days per year.

If she works any hours other than the contract - she is compensated by time off.

Teachers are not underpaid.

 

[dwmoeller1]

My wife is a teacher - 95K per year - about 28K per year for health care benefits - will collect about 45% of her final salary for life upon retirement. 15 days sick and personal pay which accumulate if not used. When she retires next year she will get a check for about 24K for her unused sick and personal days.

She works 185 days per year.

If she works any hours other than the contract - she is compensated by time off.

Teachers are not underpaid.

Your single example demonstrates only that not all teachers are underpaid. As a group however, they are. Get in a nice district with good funding and the teachers are generally well-compensated. However, that does not reflect the situation for most teachers.

The national average is between 40k and 45k. Even those who have 20+ years experience (which, in most states, also represents 15 or more post-grad hours) only average around 57k.

 

[targus]

The national average is between 40k and 45k. Even those who have 20+ years experience (which, in most states, also represents 15 or more post-grad hours) only average around 57k.

57K average plus health benefits and retirement - working 180 to 185 days a year...

What would it take in your opinion for teachers to be not underpaid?

 

[dwmoeller1]

57K average plus health benefits and retirement - working 180 to 185 days a year...

What would it take in your opinion for teachers to be not underpaid?

For that level of experience and that level of education (not to mention the level of stress), it is underpaid. Compare to other pay grades for jobs with similar experience and education.

 

[targus]

For that level of experience and that level of education (not to mention the level of stress), it is underpaid. Compare to other pay grades for jobs with similar experience and education.

So what is your opinion is the amount at which they would be not underpaid?

 

[mcdirector]

I'm sure there are teachers that only work 180-185 days per year, but I don't know any. I've always considered my contracted salary to extend all year so that I can actually get the things done for the next school year that I don't have time for during the current school year - making activities, rewriting less than stimulating lessons, training on the latest and greatest technology or ed fad, etc. Granted my summer schedule is more relaxed (thank goodness).

In NC, a 33+ year career with a masters and national boards still makes less than 65K. 33+ years with just a bachelors is at 52.5K.

Still not defending these teachers. I can't imagine NOT going to a night time school event.

 

[padredurand]

For that level of experience and that level of education (not to mention the level of stress), it is underpaid. Compare to other pay grades for jobs with similar experience and education.

Like a pastor for instance?

 

[Salty]

Like a pastor for instance?

Yea, but a pastor only works one day a week