Why is there evil in the world?

God predestines the elect. God predestines those who are damned. Double predestination. Niether group has a choice in the matter. They are either chosen to be saved or they are chosen to burn. God's choice alone. Thus logically man has no responsibility apart from Adam and God become a tyrant.

 

By my will

If it is by my will that I am saved then I can make my own way to salvation, but I am saved by the will of God because it is His way.

 

Just to be clear, the doctrine of double predestination is nothing short of heresy of the biggest order, and no calvinist, in his right mind, would entertain it.

Cheers,

Jim

 

For the record

Hardening someone's heart and given them over to their own evil desires's is the same thing to me.

 

I agree with you. Calvin I'm certain wouldn't want to be associated with this view, however, if you take his tennants and follow them to their logical conclussion Calvinism ultimately becomes a double predestinarian view. For instance follow the conclusion of the infralapsarianism view. God becomes ultimately responsible for evil. Because he decrees the fall must occur. And if you hold to preterition then ultimately a choice not to choose is the same as choosing.

 

As I have stated many times, everything falls under the absolute sovereignty of God. Man's free will falls under a branch of sovereignty called God's permissive will. God allows man to move and have his being and freedom of choice, but may be limited by "thus far and no further."

A long ways from double predestination. God does choose those to be His elect, but PASSES by the remainder to THEIR own destiny....not predestination, but their choice.

Cheers,

Jim

 

creating a man to go to hell is a problem. Whether they go "kicking and screaming" is irrelevant. They know nothing other than to be "hell bound". Its like making a robot for the purposes of vulcanism. The only difference from a moral perspective is that a human is a living moral agent created by God. A robot has no agency. However, in Calvin's theological view man has no other choice after Adam and thus is no better off than the robot.

 

Its the obligation of the creator. The creator is responsible for his creation. Also note God loves himself (in a non selfish way) very much. He is complete within himself and God values himself. If you are agreeable to this view then imagine God creates man in his own image. Thus to have his image alone stamped on man (so to speak) alone gives man value. Though we discover through scripture that God has reasons to value man above just this reason and wants to have a deep loving relationship with man that he sends his own son to redeem man and even places men who believe in him in a felial relationship. Saved men thus are awarded a special relationship of communion with God that has been described in scriptures like unto a wedding or a marriage. This I believe is why God is obligated.

 

Thus they must be given a choice in order to choose. Calvinism provides that this is impossible. Apart from Adam there is no choice. You have provided for a limited view of free will which comes into contradiction with Calvin in other instances.

 

Yes I am. God can't act contrarily to his nature or his characteristics or to his perfections.

So are you seriously suggesting that God ordained evil just so that he can suffer and die? God is not a masochist. God does not tempt nor is tempted. God is not evil.

yes but your cause/effect relationship is off. Evil and sin is a consiquence of the decisions of free agents.

again cause/effect is off. Is God worthy of praise apart from Calvary? Did angels cry "holy holy holy, is the lord God Almighty" before God created man?

You really said that? Wow. So you're saying God has something to prove and bets your and my life on it. How irresponsible is that?

There is a difference from God understanding the ramification of choice for free agents and causing it to happen. The latter is your camp and too horrible to contemplate because if it were true God would tempt, God would be evil.

No but I've been around the block a few times with these issues.

 

Trust

The angels had their chance for repentance in the presence of God. Just like we are now given a chance to ask for forgiveness in the presence of God only at the cross the only place where God and sinful man meet face to face.

Meet Jesus there He is there with open arms. Praise be to God through Jesus Christ.

 

Christ

They were in the presence of God when they were cast down not like us. We have hope and His name is Jesus Christ.