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Degree- worth the paper?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Luke2427, Dec 4, 2010.

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  1. Luke2427

    Luke2427 Active Member

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    OK. I'm not going to argue with you about it. It's there but you are not going to get it. Acts 22:3 says

    Suffice it to say that Paul was not demeaning his education in the passage to which Amy was referring.
     
    #121 Luke2427, Dec 6, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 6, 2010
  2. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    You really need to familiarize yourself with Jewish customs, Luke.

    He was brought up "in this city" at the feet of Gamaliel...but he was born in Tarsus, and understood the law according to Jewish custom there. He got his "religious leader" education under Gamaliel.
     
    #122 webdog, Dec 6, 2010
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  3. GBC Pastor

    GBC Pastor New Member

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    But you also included this:

    No it is not arrogance for the laity (and here you did not use "average laity" but clumsily lumped them all together) to dedicate themselves to the study of the Scriptures apart from the universities and believe that they can also "dig out" as much as the seminary trained theologian. If they put in the effort it can certainly be done. Sitting in a seminary doesn't make anyone a biblical scholar anymore than my sitting in my truck makes me a mechanic. The amount of effort and study put into it makes the difference regardless of the form or location.
     
    #123 GBC Pastor, Dec 6, 2010
  4. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    :laugh: Great line :thumbs:
     
    #124 webdog, Dec 6, 2010
  5. Steven2006

    Steven2006 New Member

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    Yes, and here is another nugget:

    emphasis mine
     
    #125 Steven2006, Dec 6, 2010
  6. Luke2427

    Luke2427 Active Member

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    I've already proven it to you. The text is clear. I'm not going to argue with you about it, as I said. I've got better things to do with my time- like argue with this wall here.
     
    #126 Luke2427, Dec 6, 2010
  7. Luke2427

    Luke2427 Active Member

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    And I stand by it.

    There is a ton by way of GREEK and HEBREW and a hundred other things one doesn't get by osmosis.

    He must have training.

    How you can argue with that is beyond me.
     
    #127 Luke2427, Dec 6, 2010
  8. Luke2427

    Luke2427 Active Member

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    It's not a great line- it's silly and irrelevant to this discussion.

    No one is talking about sitting in a seminary. Were talking about GRADUATING from one.
     
    #128 Luke2427, Dec 6, 2010
  9. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    Wow, you even debate my personal opinion on what I think is a great line :laugh:

    You'll probably disagree and debate this too...
     
    #129 webdog, Dec 6, 2010
  10. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    Seriously, you are a legend in your own mind :)

    You think you prove everything you say about every subject simply because you say so. Why are you even on the BB, Luke?
     
    #130 webdog, Dec 6, 2010
  11. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    Besides dismissing God's ability to gift anyone to speak any language at any given time, you assume one doesn't seek out such knowledge on their own and they are unable to attain it unless they spend "many thousands of dollars".
     
    #131 webdog, Dec 6, 2010
  12. Steven2006

    Steven2006 New Member

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    No person can learn to understand this withought getting a college degree?
     
    #132 Steven2006, Dec 6, 2010
  13. preachinjesus

    preachinjesus Well-Known Member
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    I love the results when someone pokes the Baptist antidisestablishmentarianism bear!
     
    #133 preachinjesus, Dec 6, 2010
  14. Luke2427

    Luke2427 Active Member

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    #134 Luke2427, Dec 6, 2010
  15. Amy.G

    Amy.G New Member

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    What is silly and irrelevant is you arguing with WD over his opinion of J. Edwards. He is entitled to it and you are trying to hijack the discussion because you have lost the debate.
     
    #135 Amy.G, Dec 6, 2010
  16. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    Hardly, please learn to use the phrase properly. You stated a person MUST have training which is contrary to God gifting someone to use those languages without having training. You are wrong.

    I'm not misrepresenting you...you are doing a dandy enough job of that on your own.
     
    #136 webdog, Dec 6, 2010
  17. Luke2427

    Luke2427 Active Member

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    Since I have said no less than a dozen times that there are exceptions to the rule it is abundantly obvious that I meant that one MUST have training from someone to know GREEK- even if it is the book that he is reading on it doing the training. And the book that he is reading while self teaching is almost invariably going to be written by a lettered scholar.

    So this exceptional layman who learns Greek on his own STILL depends fully on scholars for his knowledge.

    MOST layman don't read such books so your point is irrelevant.

    I have said all along, from start to finish and clearly, that what seminary education does is make the graduate more knowledgeable than the average layman. And I said several other times including the OP that what seminary education TENDS to make the grad more knowledgeable of the Bible than laymen.

    Both ways I have said it clearly mean that there are exceptional layman out there who are as knowledgeable as seminary grads. But if that was not clear enough I literally said multiple times that there are exceptions to this rule- like Spurgeon.

    So yes, as is your faithful custom, your post is a straw man.
     
    #137 Luke2427, Dec 6, 2010
  18. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    I must have missed the logic where if something "must" have something, there are "exceptions to the rule" where "must" does not really mean must.

    You speak out of both sides of your mouth at times.
     
    #138 webdog, Dec 6, 2010
  19. righteousdude2

    righteousdude2 Well-Known Member
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    Faith:
    Baptist
    A Thd from Cemetary is . . .

    . . . no better than what the Holy Spirit can do through individuals chosen to lead and tend the flock.

    While I have no problem with those who have gone the way of academia to gain a better understanding of the Bible and theology, it is my opinion that throughout the history of mankind, God didn't select His leaders and prophets according to the number of degrees listed after their name.

    Furthermore, academia has often misled the faithful with liberal, watered down interpretations of the Bible and the mission of the church.

    We can lay the blame for the many different denominations, that separate the church, on doorsteps of theologians.

    Lay leadership is often as effective as the educated leader, and when God does the selecting of those He wishes to lead a flock, who's to argue?

    Both the laymen and the scholarly led pastor must find theChristian love and ability to accept one another's calling when it is clear that the Lord has ordained it.

    I've seen miracluous works come out of the sweat and prayers of both the educated leader and the lowly layperson! I've also observed the fall of both when overwhelmed with demonic temptations.

    When the degrees are set aside, the man called of God, and those who remain true to their calling and the God of their salvation will continue to reap great harvests for the Kingdom!!! :thumbs:

    Shalom,

    Pastor Paul :type:
     
    #139 righteousdude2, Dec 6, 2010
  20. Luke2427

    Luke2427 Active Member

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    No I didn't. One MUST have training if he is to learn Greek.

    Rarely laymen selfTRAIN. They still have training and it comes from SCHOLARS they read after.

    But these are the exceptions. Laymen by and large do not train themselves in the Greek and Hebrew languages. By and large they do not train themselves in church history and hermeneutics and philosophy.

    There have been some, most geniuses, who have done so without a seminary degree.

    But the fact still remains that those seminary grads TEND to be more knowledgeable than laymen.

    That is what I have said all along. It is consistent and without contradiction. There has been no talking out of both sides of the mouth here.

    You did that, though in the scholarship vs laity 2 thread, didn't you? when you said you did not say Jonathan Edwards was not orthodox and then admitted you did say it? Is that not the epitome of speaking out of both sides of your mouth?

    And BTW, when you said, "You talk out of both sides of your mouth", was that an argument relative to this discussion or was it a personal attack, an ad hominem.

    Aren't you being abrasive with such a comment? Isn't that what you jumped on the band wagon against me for earlier?
     
    #140 Luke2427, Dec 6, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 6, 2010
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