Did Jesus have a sin nature?

I agree Pinoy.
:laugh:

The key word is "likeness". The bible does not say He came in sinful flesh, but that He came in the likeness of sinful flesh.

 

Were Adam and Eve less than human prior to the fall?

I haven't read through all of the posts on this thread, so if it was answered, I apologize in advance.

Also, according to Augustine just having a sin nature means we are sinners. If Jesus is human in every manner as we are, He would also have to be a sinner, no?

That is unless *gasp* a sinner is defined as one who sins!

 

I understand what you are saying, but scripture paints a different understanding.
But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own desire, and enticed.
When you say that He had all the desires tempting Him that we do are you saying that he desired to lie, because we have that desire, steal, because we have that desire, covet, because we have that desire and every other desire we have, but we do not all act on them all, we resist the desire. We are not all drawn away or by our desire as James mentiones. Is this what you are saying the Lord did? He had all the feelings (desires) of or for the temptations, but did not give in (allow to be drawn away) to or by them?

 

Hbr 5:7 Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared; Luk 22:44 And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground. Hbr 12:4 Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.

Who thinks the temptation was not there and that it was real? The Word was made flesh.

I will go on record as saying because the Word was made flesh he had to be born again per he himself. There is not one word about sin in the born again passage. The last Adam is post resurrection. 1Cr 15:46 Howbeit that not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; (the Word was made flesh) and afterward (after the resurrection) that which is spiritual.

The first man Adam is being made in the image of the last Adam (man) thru the gift of the Holy Spirit then through resurrection/change.

Post 12 has more info.

 

For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as [we are, yet] without sin.

This is the scripture we are talking about. He had desires and tempted, but did not sin. So the desire was there, but did not sin. So it was an outside temptation that we all go through, but the heart was not tempted as we are.

 

Jesus did not inherit a sin nature because His Father was God. His Father was not Adam, and could not have inherited anything from Adam. His mother was a surrogate. The Holy Spirit did not have sex with Mary in order to pass on this inheritance through Her. A sin nature is not inherited but becomes so when a man first sins. We are born in sin but we are not born sinners. This belief is why so many Calvinist believe babies burn in hell when they can't understand anything much.

No where in the passage above does it suggest Christ had a sin nature. As usual Calvinist take scripture to the extreme by interpreting there doctrine into scripture instead of out of scripture. They have to do this because there doctrine isn't really there. Not once has any of there best scholars here proved any of there doctrines of grace. That's because they don't exist in scripture.

You are right this is blasphemy.

Next we will be hearing of the regeneration of Christ. Am I exaggerating? I'd never discount the possibility some Calvinist some where will say Christ must have been regenerated.
MB

 

No. Adam and Eve were perfectly human before the fall.

Again, read my explanation about Augustine's conceptualization. When I refer to a "sin nature" it is not that He is a sinner or has the propensity to sin. Christ was and is impervious to sin. What I am saying is that He was impacted by sin in that He was able to experience what it is (now, after the fall) to be fully human. He had a will which was human (in addition to His divine will). He had emotions which were fully human as well.

So, again, maybe using the words "sin nature" to describe His full humanity were not the best choice. My intention is NOT to say that Jesus was tainted by sin, but rather to say He took on our humanity to redeem it.

The Archangel

 

...so why couldn't it be the same with Christ not having been tainted by sin? I believe He had flesh that was tainted by sin and was corruptible, but like A&E (without having their nature tainted by sin) they could still be tempted. Having a sin nature means one will sin, not that one can sin. If the latter were true, there could be another human that could do the same as Christ. I know neither of us believe that.

I agree with what you say here, but this is in contrast to Augustine's Original Sin where we are created sinners due to having Adam's nature passed on down to us.

 

I am not accussing or condemning. I am just trying to clarify. Your understanding is that the Lord felt desire of the flesh when tempted to lie, steal, murder, commit sodomy, fornication and every other sin we desire in the flesh, but did not give way to the desire, correct?

 

The flesh has desire to eat drink and many things and Jesus did not give himself over to those desire to eat for forty days. Those things we need that are not sin we have to do or we will die, but Jesus was in control over that when He fasted.

Since Jesus did not sin and give Himself to the temptation of sin and temptation remained outside, because He did not give Himself over to an evil desire, because He didn't have one. I don't know how many different ways I can say the same things

 

He wasn't tainted by sin in one way--He had no "Original Sin." There was no guilt of Adam's sin passed to Him, there was no propensity to sin passed to Him.

I would agree, in the way stated above in Post #54, that His flesh was susceptible to the effects of sin and His human nature bore the consequences of sin (Not His own sin).

You say "Having a sin nature means one will sin, not that one can sin." I agree my original statement, using an unqualified statement of "sin nature" was not nearly as clear as it should have been. Again, I argue that His humanity was like ours; He was not a super-human in His humanity. He was human like us and that humanity was united to His divinity.

Perhaps it was a poor choice of words. If I had the original post to do over again, I would have explained it much more clearly.

I'm not talking strictly about Augustine's concept of Original sin. Jesus bypassed having Original sin because He did not have a human father.

The Archangel

 

So you believe that He had the evil desires, but did not give into them, correct?

 

Evil desire

You are no ways apart of a evil that is on the outside but what comes from the inside that Jesus did not have inside of Him an evil desire.

 

I am not clear what you mean by thta so let me ask it this way. How was Jesus tempted if He did not feel the temptation?

 

Temptation

The temptation came from outside not from within. I can't put it any clearer than that. I cannot go outside of what the verses present. If you don't like my answer I am sorry. Maybe someone else can explain it better than me, forgive me.

 

Having a sin nature does not mean one HAS to sin. If Jesus didn't have a sin nature to overcome, then He proved NOTHING by not sinning. God does not and cannot sin. He was born of a woman, and no one is going to convince me that women (even Mary) are not born with a sin nature. We CHOOSE to sin or not sin, and Jesus chose not to sin.

 

Jesus bypassed original sin because He is God. The corruption of human nature could not pass to Him because He is God.

 

Sure, having a sin nature does not mean one has to sin. But it does mean one is susceptable to sin. You and I have a corrupted nature. Paul calls this the old man, the outward man. We had to be born again, in which we the inward man who delights in the law of God. The outward man hates God and delights in sin. Thus we have the war Paul speaks of in Romans 7.

Jesus didn't have that. Jesus didn't need to be born again. Jesus didn't have what Paul calls the flesh that seeks to sin. Jesus was susceptable to sin like we are. Instead, Jesus is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and higher than the heavens. You ask what Jesus proved by not sinning? He proved He is the Son of God. He did something we couldn't do - spend an entire lifetime on earth never once breaking a single commandment of God either in letter or in spirit, externally or internally. Jesus Christ, unlike me, never once had a single sinful thought. Jesus did that which I couldn't do. He kept the whole law of God without spot. Jesus, in doing so, proved that He is the only Savior, the only hope we have.

 

That is true. But, Jesus wasn't only God. He was also man. And as a man, the Original Sin that we all have bypassed Him due to the fact that there was no man involved in His conception.

Your view, though you likely don't mean it to, suddenly declares Jesus to be something less than fully human.

The Archangel

 

No? Can you name one person who has ever lived besides Christ that did not sin?

Surely there must have been one?