I would really like to see this church before the floor is covered with earth again.
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1,500-year-old church found in Israel
- Thread starter Crabtownboy
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Sounds like an interesting archeological site. This helps corroborate the Bible teaching that apostasy was already on the scene in the early churches.
God does not dwell in temples made with hands.
"That Way" usually had to assemble in secret with no liturgical adornments and other pagan trappings for worship.
God still has a remnant--where ever two or three are gathered.
God is a Spirit--they that worship him must worship Him in Spirit and in Truth.
Selah,
Bro. James
God does not dwell in temples made with hands.
"That Way" usually had to assemble in secret with no liturgical adornments and other pagan trappings for worship.
God still has a remnant--where ever two or three are gathered.
God is a Spirit--they that worship him must worship Him in Spirit and in Truth.
Selah,
Bro. James
I see from your profile that you attend Sovereign Grace Bible Baptist.
I assume that your church has a building also.
Why is that not an apostasy?
Bethelassoc
Member
That sounds promising.
Yes, we do have a regular place to meet at times appointed. We do not have most of the visual distractions: crosses, flags, stained glass, statues, pictures, holy water, candles, christmas trees, etc. etc.
We do have a church covenant on the wall and a missionary report posted in the back of the room. Perhaps we are a bit conformed to the world, but probably not apostasized. There are several Baptist barnacles without Biblical basis.
Again, God does not dwell in temples made with hands.
Peace,
Bro. James
The article did say that there were mosaics on the floor - but said nothing about flags, stained glass, statues, holy water, candels or christmas trees.
How did you make that jump?
Well, getting back to the OP...about a year ago I stood inside a church built in about AD 300. It was amazing.
There is so much under the dirt in Israel that as they excavate more and more they will find so much. These are really, truly exciting times to be living in especially with the amounts of archeological evidences being uncovered.
There is so much under the dirt in Israel that as they excavate more and more they will find so much. These are really, truly exciting times to be living in especially with the amounts of archeological evidences being uncovered.
Bro. James, how is having a flag, stained glass, etc. apostasy? That is a very strong charge to level against the overwhelming vast majority of churches in the past and in the present. In fact, it boarders on breaking the rules of this forum. The building that the church I pastor meets in has flags, pews, carpet, sound system, a prayer room, Sunday School rooms, a kitchen with modern appliances, etc. Are you insinuating that we are in apostasy?
Please forgive me for having offended anyone. It was not my intention to offend or judge.
I have seen the the opulence of the Vatican, the cathedrals all over the world, the icons and dead men's bones in an orthodox church in Antokya, Turkey, (Paul's Antioch, I believe), just to name a few; all of this by people who say they are followers of Christ. I see christmas trees and wreaths in fundamental independent churches--and I wonder.
We are living in a time of ecumenism and easy believism. We have a religion which conforms to our life styles instead of vice versa.
We need to repent and do the first works.
These are just some of my observations.
Peace.
Bro. James
I have seen the the opulence of the Vatican, the cathedrals all over the world, the icons and dead men's bones in an orthodox church in Antokya, Turkey, (Paul's Antioch, I believe), just to name a few; all of this by people who say they are followers of Christ. I see christmas trees and wreaths in fundamental independent churches--and I wonder.
We are living in a time of ecumenism and easy believism. We have a religion which conforms to our life styles instead of vice versa.
We need to repent and do the first works.
These are just some of my observations.
Peace.
Bro. James
The last time I checked there is no Biblical mandate concerning a Christmas tree. If you don't won't to have one in your home or church building that is your choice. If you feel like you shouldn't based on God's mandate to you then you better not. But, you have no right to judge me or any other church for exercising thier autonomy on a matter of which the Bible is silent.
Apparently my apology has not been accepted. Again, I am sorry for having offended you.
The biblical question is not "What is wrong with it?" but rather "what is right with it?
Scriptures: "Whatsoever is not of Faith is sin", Rom. 14:23. That one gets all of us.
Gal. 4:10, 11-- Paul's admonition to the Galatians and us: "Ye observe days, and months, and times and years. I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain."
The letter to the Galatians should cause all of us repent and take a closer look at how we worship God in Spirit and Truth.
Peace,
Bro. James
The biblical question is not "What is wrong with it?" but rather "what is right with it?
Scriptures: "Whatsoever is not of Faith is sin", Rom. 14:23. That one gets all of us.
Gal. 4:10, 11-- Paul's admonition to the Galatians and us: "Ye observe days, and months, and times and years. I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain."
The letter to the Galatians should cause all of us repent and take a closer look at how we worship God in Spirit and Truth.
Peace,
Bro. James
Bro. James, you have not offended me. I'm just challenging your postition.
There is a big difference between coercion and voluntary observance of a holiday. No one if forcing anyone to have a Christmas tree, to observe a holiday, etc. More importantly no one is saying that these are necessary for one's salvation. But, it seems that you are suggesting that if one observes certain holidays or decorates that their salvation is in question which is equally wrong.
There is a big difference between coercion and voluntary observance of a holiday. No one if forcing anyone to have a Christmas tree, to observe a holiday, etc. More importantly no one is saying that these are necessary for one's salvation. But, it seems that you are suggesting that if one observes certain holidays or decorates that their salvation is in question which is equally wrong.
So do you believe that apostasy was an appropriate word? Do you question the salvation of all who have these so called trappings in church buildings?
Apostasy: a falling away from the Truth or not contending for The Faith, once for all delivered unto the saints, Jude 3. The churches have been apostasizing since the first century: Re: I Cor. Most of what is called Christendom today is apostate--preaching another gospel--Paul says they are anathema. I have joined some of them.
That I question someone's salvation is neither expressed nor implied, but rather putting words into my mouth. The Lord knows them that are His. I am a staunch supporter of freedom of conscience. My original objective was to compare floor mosaics of animals in a place of worship 1500 years old to mosaics, paintings, statues etc. etc., which are found in modern places of worship. Apparently, I have failed to make the point. Sorry.
The scripture still admonishes us to: reprove, rebuke and exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
Peace,
Bro. James
That I question someone's salvation is neither expressed nor implied, but rather putting words into my mouth. The Lord knows them that are His. I am a staunch supporter of freedom of conscience. My original objective was to compare floor mosaics of animals in a place of worship 1500 years old to mosaics, paintings, statues etc. etc., which are found in modern places of worship. Apparently, I have failed to make the point. Sorry.
The scripture still admonishes us to: reprove, rebuke and exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
Peace,
Bro. James
So your claim is that what goes on in churches is in apostasy but the believers in those churches are not. Is that correct?
And you are privy to this how?
Nothing privy about it--the majority of Christians, so-called, believe in some sort of salvation by works or an admixture of faith and works. This sort of apostasy(turning away from truth) was started early--when the Jewish Christians wanted the Gentile Christians to be circumcised. A similar error showed up when baptismal regeneration became a doctrine, then came infant baptism. The Apostle Paul reprimanded Peter and others about the circumcision error. But the last two errors are still practised today by the majority of those called Christian.
If one includes the LDS in the group called Christian, there are millions more practising a baptismal regeneration--some even by proxy. Interesting, these are the ones who claim to have the gospel restored.
Salvation by works is an insidious doctrine which pervades most of Christendom. See Ephesians 2:1-10.
Peace,
Bro. James
If one includes the LDS in the group called Christian, there are millions more practising a baptismal regeneration--some even by proxy. Interesting, these are the ones who claim to have the gospel restored.
Salvation by works is an insidious doctrine which pervades most of Christendom. See Ephesians 2:1-10.
Peace,
Bro. James
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