Featured The Reason why Calvinists and Arminians cannot agree

The difference is I, for the umpteenth time, have only quoted scripture and let it speak for itself. I have never quoted Calvin once... you on the other hand continually misquote, misinterpret, and twist snippets of scripture to promote your errors. I don't post on this forum to try to win you over but to post the biblical alternative to your errant views, knowing that my God works all things after the counsel of His own will.

 

I didn't start this thread, MorseOp a Calvinist started this thread. He wanted to discuss the issue, so I joined in and discussed it. So shoot me.

And it is easy to say I misquote, misinterpret, and twist scripture, but not explain where and how I did this. Show me where I misquoted, misinterpreted, or twisted scripture.

I'll be waiting for you to show me that.

 

What in the world are you talking about? I knew all that already. Church history is one of my passions, having studied it in depth for 37 years.

Your comment is laughable.

 

Don't leave.

 

Well, if you're going to be wrong, and post falsehoods, you might as well go all the way.

 

I am not trying to be an "Anglican apologist". I just find it amazing that Baptists who trumpet soul liberty can't have Calvinists and Arminians in the same church on an equal basis. Seems like Anglicans have much more actual soul liberty, and Baptists should be ashamed of that. But go ahead and nit-pick each other to death over it and exclude believers from fellowship over it. Doing so denies soul liberty, but it seems that nowadays this is a principle only and not a practice among many who claim the name "Baptist".

In my own CAC, we are decidedly non-Calvinist in our Principles, but we allow soul liberty and would accept Calvinists wholeheartedly and on an equal basis.

 

We would not muzzle anyone. A person may believe and teach as they are led, as long as it does not, in the words of John Wesley, "strike at the root of Christianity."

 

Nice try ...but false once again. We enter into the Kingdom while here on earth...it is not speaking of entering heaven in the future.
Jesus taught the kingdom is at hand...col says we are translated into the kingdom.

People explain truth in many different ways to you...but you twist it in a way that will not allow you to come to truth.The fact is.....you cannot believe it unless God allows you to.
You do not understand both new birth and regeneration.
Everyone has said the same thing to you. You lament saying everyone either calls you names, or tells you ...you do not understand any of the verses.....that is because it is obvious to us.

You posted ....asking us to show you where you are wrong.It would be easier for us to remark when you get a verse correct.:thumbsup:

That only happens when you post a verse without commenting on it.When you comment it reveals the error.:wavey:

 

The original baptists were the Apostles..they were calvinistic and augustianian before Calvin and before Augustine.

 

And you redefine the word regeneration. Regeneration means to be alive again, and no one is spiritually alive until after their sins are forgiven, which necessarily must take place AFTER they believe.

You say a person cannot understand the gospel until he is regenerated, Hebrews 6 proves you wrong.

Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

You mistake enlightenment with regeneration. The Holy Spirit convicts and enlightens a sinner to understand the truth, but this is not regeneration, this is not being born again. An enlightened and convicted sinner can be brought to the point of repentance and yet turn away in unbelief.

So, you redefine what the word "regeneration" means. Regeneration literally means to be made alive again, and no one is alive again until their sins are forgiven. Until your sins are forgiven you are DEAD IN SIN.

Faith precedes regeneration, Calvinism teaches falsehood.

 

Some say Hebrews 6 is merely describing a hypothetical situation. I happen to believe the person apostosized and did turn away from the truth and reject the gospel like you do, but no one can be dogmatic on the scripture, imo. The big questions is, why can they not return? But back to the point: Do all Calvanists say that a person is regenerated before belief? If so, how does that take place?

 

Well, the scripture says it is impossible to renew them again unto repentance. They are right there where you make that decision to choose Jesus or reject him. I believe that when anybody makes that decision to reject Jesus, they become hardened, they will never again come under that great conviction.

I can not say whether all Calvinists believe regeneration precedes faith, but it is absolutely the majority view of Calvinists.

Regeneration before faith is illogical. Until you believe you are condemned, you are dead in your trespasses and sins. You can't be spiritually alive and spiritually dead at the same moment, yet that is what Calvinism teaches. Some Calvinists teach that a person can be regenerated for years, even decades before they express faith in Christ. This would be a person who is born again of the Spirit of God who is walking around dead in trespasses and sins for decades. Totally absurd, but this is what many teach.

Jesus said the Holy Spirit would reprove the world of sin. The Holy Spirit enlightens a man to understand he is a sinner in danger of perishing, the Spirit convicts a man of his sin. This is what Calvinists call regeneration. This is incorrect, regeneration means to be alive again. No one is spiritually alive until their sins are forgiven, which happens AFTER faith.

 

What does your own salvation experience & testimony tell you?

 

EWF posts more shuck and jive, the question was: How do Calvinists say regeneration takes place before a person believes. They will not answer because we are made alive together with Christ, not before we are spiritually placed in Christ.

Calvinists and Arminians cannot agree because they both hold unbiblical positions and are unwilling to accept the plain reading of scripture. So they attack opponents personally, this guy demeans God, this guy does not know what he is talking about, this guy posts nasty comments and on and on.

 

My own testimony tells me that I was under conviction several weeks before being saved. I finally trusted what God said through the convicting power of the Holy Spirit. I still remember the struggle for my soul. The battle was for the mind. What I now know was Satan or one of his minions was telling me that if I got saved, that people would ridicule me. I had a bunch of rough friends, if you can call them that, and they would certainly reject me if I got saved. On the other hand, I was under deep conviction for my sin and knew where I would end if I died. I was scared to go to sleep some nights. But the Holy Spirit kept confirming in my heart that Jesus died for my sins and if I turned from my sin and trusted the gospel, I would indeed be saved and God would lead me then. The preacher made an appeal for those were lost and wanted to be saved and I felt like if I walked out that door I would never have another chance to be saved. I walked down to the altar and prayed and asked God to forgive me for my sin and to save me and He did. I know salvation is not by feeling, but the burden of sin rolled away and I knew in my heart that God had moved in my spirit. But just because that is what happened to me does not mean that is everyone's experience, of course.

 

Id seriously like to know how much of this is engendered into a persons salvation experience. I vividly recall my own brother, who was at the time a Fundamentalist Baptist Pastor telling me that his young daughter was getting baptized, that she had accepted Jesus. At the time I did not see any change in the girl (she was very young) but my bro insisted she was indeed spiritually transformed.

Today my question is was she in fact regenerated or was it (as I suspect) pier pressure by my brother & his wife to conform to expectations. My own conversion was so unexpected, so gut wrenching so dramatic that I recall it & it happened with the Holy Spirit upfront confronting me with my unbelief. After that I was so ashamed of myself that I pulled over in my car & cried like a baby. That was life changing.

So ....do we all experience a similar conversion?

 

So who do you believe was convicting you of your sins, telling you to get straight.......who was changing your heart, giving you a conscience so you agonized over your immortal soul? I believe I know but you have to answer that yourself my brother. Clearly though, there was a tussle going on & for a reason.....to bring you to God.