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The Bible says a lot of things

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Matt Janes, Apr 27, 2018.

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  1. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    I think maybe it is you who does not know what the word means. Here it is..."a person who is intolerant toward those holding different opinions."

    Now you must answer, Did Jesus Christ and His Apostles give us "opinions" concerning God and Salvation or did they give us "facts" about God and Salvation?

    Here is Jesus' words....

    "I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins."

    "He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."


    Here is what John preached...

    "He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son."

    According to your application of bigot, Jesus and His Apostles would be bigots. They all preached belief on Jesus Christ the Son of God the ONLY way to be saved, all other opinions contrary are of the devil because they are not "facts" only opinions and they go against God's Word/facts.

    So call me a bigot all day long! I am in Good company with Jesus and the Apostles. And you my friend are an advocate for the devil, trying to convince people they need not believe Jesus is the Christ the Son of God. You are as the Pharisee and need to repent asap!
     
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  2. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    It can happen. Deeds don't mean anything. You can sell everything you have give it all to the poor even sacrifice your own life and it could mean nothing. 1 Corinthians 13.


    1 Corinthians 13

    . 3And if I give all my possessions to feed the poor, and if I surrender my body to be burned, but do not have love, it profits me nothing.

    Same thing with faith alone.

    2If I have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing.

    To have all knowledge and know all mysteries, thats automatically complete belief.
    You can even have faith to move mountains.

    All of it means nothing.
     
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  3. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    You missed the teaching. It all means nothing IF you do not have Love. If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ let him be accursed. (bigot Paul)
     
  4. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    Jesus Christ commands don't believe in just taking his word for it.

    John 10

    37“If I do not do the works of My Father, do not believe Me; 38but if I do them, though you do not believe Me, believe the works, so that you may know and understand that the Father is in Me, and I in the Father.”

    Your idea of Jesus would NEVER say these things.

    Guess which line Jesus said:

    John 14
    11“Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me; otherwise believe because of the works themselves.


    11“Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me; otherwise your toast.


    Go figure Jesus prioritizes the good works over himself. Its almost like he is a GOOD MAN.
     
  5. Jordan Kurecki

    Jordan Kurecki Well-Known Member
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    Amen.

    At this point, “a man that is a heretic after the first or second admonition reject”. Utilyan and Matt have been admonished many times for their rejection of Gods word for their own ideas. I believe they ought to be rejected now, I pray that they see the error of their ways and come to a place of true repentance.
     
  6. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    You mock Jesus Christ.

    I believe the bible.

    2 Timothy 3
    16All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness;

    You follow man made rules and try to add these fake rules to the bible.


    I have answered with scripture challenge after challenge. And I only give you ONE challenge and like Satan you fail miserably.

    Maybe we would be alright if folks did not add false hoods and lies to the holy scriptures of Jesus Christ!

    You swear there is a bible verse that plainly says the BIBLE is the Final and Only authority concerning Christianity.

    Show us this bible verse.

    I knocked down every stupidity you throw with scripture.

    I just give one challenge and you can't stand because God is not on your side.

    Your entire bigot foundation is based on LIES.


    Like when you turn the lights on roaches scatter. You can't stand up to my challenge.
     
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  7. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    The BIBLE says a lot of things. I can open up the bible and show you Christian Doctrine and Teachings CLEARLY and PLAINLY spelled out. I can show you what it teaches has authority.

    Yet when it comes to what you guys proclaim as the #1 rule in scripture. I simply ask that you show me this rule in scripture. And you will not produce it.

    True bible believers have no problem opening the scriptures and saying look here this is the teaching.

    Unbelievers however never get around to producing scripture citing their unbiblical doctrine.

    They need to repent from pushing their Lies down everyone's throat.
     
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  8. Jordan Kurecki

    Jordan Kurecki Well-Known Member
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    “You tell me you haven’t found anything in the Bible that says it should be used as the only authority. I can only say that you must not have read the Bible very carefully.

    FIRST, 2 TIMOTHY 3:16-17 TEACHES THAT THE SCRIPTURE IS SUFFICIENT FOR FAITH AND PRACTICE.

    “All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be PERFECT, THOROUGHLY FURNISHED UNTO ALL GOOD WORKS.”

    The Scripture alone is given by inspiration of God and is able to make the man of God perfect. Obviously nothing else is needed, then, beyond the Scripture.

    Catholic tradition is not Holy Scripture, is not therefore inspired by God, and is not therefore necessary to make the man of God perfect. I say this on the authority of 2 Timothy 3:16-17.

    This one passage alone refutes Rome’s teaching that its tradition is equal to Scripture. Only Scripture can be equal to Scripture, because only Holy Scripture is inspired of God.

    Paul contrasts the word of men with the word of God.

    “For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when YE RECEIVED THE WORD OF GOD WHICH YE HEARD OF US, YE RECEIVED IT NOT AS THE WORD OF MEN, BUT AS IT IS IN TRUTH, THE WORD OF GOD, which effectually worketh also in you that believe” (1 Thessalonians 2:13).

    We must continue to make this crucial distinction today. If a teaching is not the word of God, it is the word of men.
     
  9. Jordan Kurecki

    Jordan Kurecki Well-Known Member
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    SECOND, WE KNOW THE BIBLE IS THE COMPLETE WORD OF GOD BECAUSE WE ARE TOLD THE FAITH WAS ONCE DELIVERED TO THE SAINTS.

    “Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for THE FAITH WHICH WAS ONCE DELIVERED UNTO THE SAINTS” (Jude 3).

    “The faith” refers to the body of New Testament truth delivered by the apostles through the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. The term “once delivered” tells us that this body of truth was given during one particular period of time and was completed. It refers to the New Testament Scriptures that was completed during the days of the apostles.

    Jude 3 singularly refutes the idea that the Christian faith has been progressively given through the Roman Catholic Church.

    THIRD, A SEAL WAS PLACED ON THE FINAL CHAPTER OF THE FINAL BOOK OF THE BIBLE, SIGNIFYING ITS COMPLETION AND WARNING EVERY MAN NOT TO ADD TO OR SUBTRACT FROM IT.

    “For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book” (Rev. 22:18,19).

    Those who claim to have a new revelation or a tradition equal to the Bible fall under the judgment described in this passage. The book of Revelation concludes and completes the Holy Scripture. Nothing is to be added or removed.
     
  10. Jordan Kurecki

    Jordan Kurecki Well-Known Member
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    FOURTH, THE COMPLETED CANON OF SCRIPTURE WAS RECOGNIZED IN THE SECOND CENTURY, LONG BEFORE THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH EXISTED.

    Christian leaders in the second century recognized the canon of the New Testament and accepted the apostolic writings as Holy Scripture on equal authority with the Old Testament. God gave them wisdom in this process and they did not need to wait for the statements of councils that came centuries later (Jn. 16:13; 17:8; 1 Thess. 2:13; 1 Jn. 2:20).

    Irenaeus (125-192), for example, in his extant writings, made 1,800 quotations from the New Testament books and used them “in such a way as to imply that they had for some time been considered as of unquestioned authority” (Herbert Miller, General Biblical Introduction, p. 140). Irenaeus accepted the four Gospels, and four only, as Scripture.

    Clement of Alexandria (150-217) quoted from and acknowledged the four Gospels and most other New Testament books, calling them “divine Scriptures.”

    Tertullian (150-220) made 7,200 citations from the New Testament books and accepted them as Scripture.

    The Latin Itala translation, which was probably made in the second century, “contained all the books that now make up the New Testament” (John Hentz, History of the Lutheran Version, p. 59).

    A list of New Testament Scriptures dating to the latter half of the second century was discovered in the Ambrosian Library in Milan, Italy, in 1740. This second-century list contains all of the 27 books of the New Testament canon (Hentz, p. 60).

    Thus the completed New Testament Scriptures were being circulated and accepted by God’s people under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. Many of the modernistic textual scholars who write today about these early centuries deny, or totally overlook, the working of the Holy Spirit in the inspiration and canonicity of the New Testament. The Apostles were not left to their own devices to transcribe the record of Christ, nor were the early Christians left to their own devices to recognize which writings were Scripture (1 Thess. 2:13). The words of the New Testament are the words of the Lord Jesus Christ through divine inspiration, and the Lord’s sheep know the voice of their Good Shepherd and can discern His voice from false shepherds (John 10:4, 5, 27).

    FIFTH, PASSAGES THAT URGE CHRISTIANS TO FOLLOW TRADITION REFER TO THE INSPIRED TRADITIONGIVEN BY THE APOSTLES, NOT TO THE UNINSPIRED TRADITIONS OF MEN WHO HAVE COME AFTER THEM.

    The term “tradition” is used in two ways in the New Testament. First it refers to apostolic doctrine given by divine inspiration (2 Thess. 2:15; 3:6). The churches are bound to obey this tradition as it is supernaturally recorded in the New Testament Scripture. Second, tradition refers to uninspired teachings that religious teachers attempt to add to the Scripture and by which they attempt to bind the lives of men (Matt. 15:1-6; Mk. 7:9-13; Col. 2:8). In this sense, tradition is condemned, as we see in the following references:

    “But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men” (Matthew 15:9).

    “Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye” (Mark 7:13).

    “Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ” (Colossians 2:8).

    We are thankful that the Lord that has given us a complete and sufficient Revelation and that we are not dependent upon extra-biblical prophecies, visions, voices, tongues, or traditions. In the Bible we have everything the churches need for faith and practice.

    Therefore, though it is true that “the Bible itself is a sort of tradition” this does not mean that it is merely another of various authoritative traditions. The Bible alone is GOD INSPIRED tradition. That is what sets it apart from every other writing. The Bible claims to be the inspired Word of God. Over two thousand times the Bible uses phrases such as “thus saith the Lord.”
     
  11. Jordan Kurecki

    Jordan Kurecki Well-Known Member
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    SIXTH, THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH CANNOT BE FOUND IN SCRIPTURE.

    The Roman Catholic Church did not exist until centuries after the writing of the New Testament. The churches described in the New Testament are nothing like the Roman Catholic Church. That “church” was formed over a period of centuries following the death of the apostles, as false teachers corrupted the New Testament church pattern and added their man-made traditions. In the New Testament we find no papacy, no priesthood after the fashion of Rome’s, no sacraments that are added to faith for salvation, no archbishops or cardinals, no baptismal regeneration, no mass, no infant baptism, no last unction, no Mary as queen of heaven, no Mary as Mother of God, no sinless Mary, no prayers to the saints, no treasury of grace, no purgatory, no holy relics or holy robes or holy water, no crucifixes, no candles, no cathedrals, no monks, no “celibate” pastors, no enforced days of fasting, no prohibition against marriage or against eating meat, nothing about the church of Rome being exalted over other churches.

    SEVENTH, ROMAN CATHOLIC TRADITION CANNOT BE RIGHT BECAUSE NOT ONLY DOES IT ADD TO THE BIBLE, IT CONTRADICTS THE BIBLE.

    The Holy Scripture always upholds itself as the absolute and sole standard for truth.

    See, for example, Isaiah 8:20: “To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.”

    Those who speak contrary to the Scriptures are in darkness. The Lord Jesus Christ severely rebuked the Pharisees because they added their manmade tradition as authority with the Scriptures and thereby contradicted the Scriptures:

    “Then came to Jesus scribes and Pharisees, which were of Jerusalem, saying, Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? for they wash not their hands when they eat bread. But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition? For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death. But ye say, Whosoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; And honour not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition. Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying, This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men” (Matthew 15:1-9).

    Not only is Roman Catholic doctrine and practice not based on the Bible, it contradicts the Bible, so it cannot be its source. Catholic dogmas such as the papacy, Mariolatry, the Saints, the Priesthood, the Mass, and Purgatory are not only not found in the New Testament, they contradict plain New Testament teaching and practice. The papacy contradicts 1 Pet. 5:1-4, among many other passages. Mariolatry and the Saints contradict 1 Tim. 2:5. The Mass contradicts 1 Cor. 11:23-26. Purgatory contradicts 2 Cor. 5:1-8 and Phil. 1:23. The Priesthood contradicts the New Testament in that Christ alone is a priest after the order of Melchisedec (Heb. 7:21-27) and Christ established no priesthood for the New Testament churches other than the priesthood of all believers (1 Peter 2:5, 9). There is not one example in the New Testament of a priest being ordained and set apart or performing the type of ministry that we see in the Roman Catholic Church. The N.T. gives qualifications for pastors and deacons, but none for priests.

    If I obey 2 Thessalonians 2:15 and 3:6 and compare Catholic tradition with the teaching of the apostles, I must reject Catholicism because it is contrary to this pattern. The apostles did not teach that there is a special priesthood among the believers. The apostles did not teach that there is a pope. The apostles did not teach that the Lord’s Supper is to be a sacrifice of any sort. The apostles did not teach that Mary is sinless or perpetually a virgin or ascended bodily to Heaven or that she is the Queen of Heaven or that Christians are to pray to her. The apostles did not teach that their office was to be passed on at their deaths and they gave no instruction for “apostolic succession.” The apostles did not teach that the churches are to have sacraments. The apostles did not teach that there are special saints to whom Christians can pray. These are only a few of the Catholic traditions that are contrary to the teaching of the apostles in the New Testament Scriptures.

    You say, “We had to trust somebody for its authenticity and completeness.” You are right. I have the choice between trusting the Bible as the authoritative and complete Word of God and trusting the Catholic Church. They cannot both be right, because they are in contradiction. The Bible proves itself to be the inspired and infallible Word of God in countless ways: fulfilled prophecy, its scientific accuracy, its cohesive unity even though it was written over a period of hundreds of years, its power to change lives, its universal appeal, its testimony of Jesus Christ, the testimony of the Apostles (study the book of Acts, for example, to see what the Apostles thought of Scripture).

    On the other hand, the Catholic Church proves itself to be false by any standard that I use. It is morally corrupt and doctrinally heretical. The Bible does not contradict itself, but the popes have continually contradicted themselves. I have the choice between trusting the apostles and trusting the popes. The apostles were not morally reprobate nor did they contradict the Holy Scriptures. Everything they taught was in complete conformity with Scripture. I find it very easy to trust the apostles and to reject the popes.
     
  12. Jordan Kurecki

    Jordan Kurecki Well-Known Member
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    EIGHTH, THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH HAS NO AUTHORITY IN THE BIBLE. ITS CLAIM TO AUTHORITY MUST COME FROM OUTSIDE OF THE BIBLE.

    The Roman Catholic Church claims that its authority lies in the popes as the successors of the apostles and in the priesthood. There is not a hint of this in the New Testament Scripture.

    1. Show me in the Bible where Jesus Christ established the office of the pope as it is found in the Catholic Church and where He made provision for the continuation of such an office.

    2. Show me in the Bible where Jesus Christ established the Catholic priesthood. Where do we find such a priesthood described? Where do we find the standards for how to choose such priests? Where do we find a description of how to ordain such priests? Where do we find a description of the seven sacraments that they perform?

    For my part, I have Scriptural authority for the gospel that I believe (that salvation is by the grace of Jesus Christ alone through His completed atonement alone through faith alone without works and sacraments—Acts 16:30-31; Rom. 3:23-26; 4:1-8; Eph. 2:8-10; 1 Cor. 15:1-4) and for the type of simple New Testament church that I attend. My faith is in Jesus Christ, and I learn of Him through the Scriptures that He gave through divine inspiration.

    I have an infallible test whereby to judge the teachings of man. Every teaching and tradition that is contrary to that inspired Scripture I reject on the authority of God’s Word.

    These decisions have eternal consequences, and I refuse to stake the eternal salvation of my soul on anything but the very highest authority.

    “So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God” (Romans 10:17).

    Is the Bible the Sole Authority for Faith and Practice?
     
  13. Jordan Kurecki

    Jordan Kurecki Well-Known Member
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    You have now been refuted and you need to repent and believe the Gospel, your trust and faith in Roman Catholicism is idolatry.
     
  14. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    You swear there is a bible verse that plainly says the BIBLE is the Final and Only authority concerning Christianity.

    And you have provided ZERO scripture proving your UNBIBLICAL DOCTRINE.

    "“For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when YE RECEIVED THE WORD OF GOD WHICH YE HEARD OF US, YE RECEIVED IT NOT AS THE WORD OF MEN, BUT AS IT IS IN TRUTH, THE WORD OF GOD, which effectually worketh also in you that believe”

    You have not received the word of God as truth, YOU add fake things.



    Do you speak ENGLISH ? PROFITABLE means it HELPS.

    “All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be PERFECT, THOROUGHLY FURNISHED UNTO ALL GOOD WORKS.”

    Scripture helps in doctrine, reproof , correction, instruction. And those things help for GOOD WORKS, which you probably think is useless anyway.

    Show me where it says SCRIPTURE is the ONLY AND FINAL AUTHORITY.

    You said there is a bible verse that says that, YOU swear it to GOD and you SHOW NOTHING.

    You want to change the subject to Catholcism
    As far as my being Catholic, I quit being catholic today. I'm choking your deception out.


    What is said fundamental FOUNDATION is a LIE, Lets prove them wrong.

    SHOW ME THE BIBLE VERSE.

    Show everyone how HONEST YOU ARE, that you are not a CONSTANT LIAR, MAKING UP FALSE RULES and adding LIES to scripture. Show everyone that you are not LYING in God's face and putting unbiblical rules.
     
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  15. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    Is that what Jesus was trying to convince them of, that he was a good man? No, that is what the unbelievers want to make Jesus out to be, just a good man.

    But you failed to include what Jesus was actually trying to convince them of. All you had to do was read just one verse prior and you would have had the answer rather than making up your own antichrist answer. I say antichrist because Jesus' entire ministry was centered on His claims of being the Christ, the Son of God. You, the Jews, the Muslims wish to make Him only a, as you put it, GOOD MAN. There will be plenty of "good men' and women in hell. The ONLY way out of condemnation is to follow the Lord Jesus Christ and BELIEVE He is the Son of God. Believing He was a "good man" will count for nothing, as will one's "good works" done while at the same time rejecting the Lord Jesus Christ.

    Here is that verse you missed....

    "Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?" (vs 36)

    Now you can understand verse 37-38....."If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not. But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him."

    What are you to believe because of the works? Look at verses 36 and you will have your answer. Or continue to make up your own.
     
  16. Alcott

    Alcott Well-Known Member
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    Matthew 23:9.

    To what?

    Therefore no reason to regard him as "infallible."
     
  17. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    What do you call your father? chuck?

    Also says don't call anyone your Teacher, Master, Leader. ect.

    When someone calls you MR. or Ms. Mrs. That means MASTER. I expect you to correct everyone for your sinful title.


    "To what?"
    Kingdom of Heaven to bind and lose, to forgive or retain sins.


    "Therefore no reason to regard him as "infallible.""

    Nothing about the Pope is infallible. You should research the meaning of Ex Cathedra

    10 years ago Donald Trump could not veto a bill for example.
     
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  18. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    I never said I believe the works, Jesus did, you need to take that up with him.


    I have continuously given scriptural answers to your questions.

    I have only asked one question and you do not provide scripture for your Unbiblical fake rules.


    Show me where it says SCRIPTURE is the ONLY AND FINAL AUTHORITY.

    You said there is a bible verse that says that, YOU swear it to GOD and you SHOW NOTHING.


    We all know scripture is true and important. And you are trying to decieve people by emphasizing truth and importance, to hide your fake made up doctrine.


    Show me where it says SCRIPTURE is the ONLY AND FINAL AUTHORITY.

    Repent to God for your satanic butchering of scripture.
     
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  19. Alcott

    Alcott Well-Known Member
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    I don't call him anything. His body has been in the grave for almost 28 years, but I hardly every spoke to him before that.

    So you just ignore that and call people such titles anyway?


    Is that the kingdom that is "within you" [Luke 17:21]? If we concede that a hot-headed speak-out-of-turn guy is given such keys, how does anybody else get them? He might slash your ear off if you try.

    We need go no further on that.
     
  20. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    "I don't call him anything. His body has been in the grave for almost 28 years, but I hardly every spoke to him before that."

    Who?
     
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