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Featured Leadership Caring about members.

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Reynolds, Sep 16, 2018.

  1. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    Something has bothered me quite a bit that happens in our church. People come and people go. In talking to the ones that "go" a central theme seems to be "we were out a couple weeks due to sickness(etc.) and no one in leadership ever asked about us." "Now a year later, no one in leadership has ever asked about us."
     
  2. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    (100% my opinion):

    It is an excuse. A symptom rather than a cause. Having been ‘Church Shopping’ recently to try and find a place to worship, after more than a decade at the same small church, I have lived both sides of this.

    First issue: The Visitors. There is a saying “If you would have friends, be a friend”. The complaint is “no one ever spoke with us” or “we just never connected”. However, if pressed, the truth is that the visitors sat by themselves and never really attempted to meet anyone on their own initiative ... they just waited and expected everyone else to sense that they wanted to make friends. The church bulletin advertised small groups, but they never attempted to join any. The announcements from the front called for people to volunteer to help with all of the ministries at the church, but they chose not to get involved. Instead they left the “unfriendly” church where the pastor and leaders and people never really made them feel welcome and like they fit in.

    Second issue: The Body. “People like to be with people like themselves.” That is just human nature. We are most comfortable with people we know and with people we have something in common. We visited one church where every effort was made to greet newcomers and visitors and to invite them to events designed to build the church “community”. So after a few weeks and MANY invitations, we attended one of the monthly after-service lunches. Long tables were set up with lots of chairs and human nature prevailed. People sat with there comfortable ‘clicks’ of families and friends. Cognicient of the FIRST ISSUE from my time at my last church, it was easy to spot the new people sitting alone at tables while the regulars all went to their unofficial assigned seating at the crowded tables. My family close to sit with some of the other newcomers and waved other people searching for somewhere to sit to join us. We all got to meet each other. A telling event was when a young family of regular attenders arrived late and the full table “borrowed” empty chairs from our table to crowd even more regulars into a “regular click” table. The event designed to build church community had exactly the opposite effect ... it told new visitors that they were unwelcome outsiders and not part of this church family. We never attended another “lunch” and the other visitors that we sat with all soon stopped attending.

    Third Issue: The Leadership. There is a general and non-scriptural expectation that the church leaders are the “professional Christians” and are expected to do everything. My Bible says that the job of a church leader is to EQUIP the Body (that means the members of the church) for service and to discipline those who fall into sin. That means that all of the things that people expect the Pastor to be doing (like visiting every sick person in the world) is really the job of all of the saints (those claiming Christ as savior). This false expectation cuts both ways. I have been in a church where new member after new member arrived full of passion and ideas for what they wanted to do to help and were told that (deacon X) is in charge of that. Deacon X may have once done the actual work, but now Deacon X is really just in charge of telling potential workers “That is not how we do things around here.” So one excited new member after another eventually gives up and decides “I guess that I am just a tither, since that seems to be the only thing that they want me to do around here.” (An actual quote from an actual church member who wanted to help with Children). The fault comes from the failure of Leadership to teach the body what they are to do and the fossilization of “positions of honor” beyond their effectiveness.
     
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  3. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    Its not an excuse. The ones I am referencing have found and are regularly attending other churches.
     
  4. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    1. did the leadership know they were out?
    2. Was there a small group they were part of that could have followed up with them?
    3. Do your deacons have the responsibility to keep up with such people?
    4. Were they actual members?
     
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  5. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    Most were members. The church runs about 150 adults on Sunday. (Youth pastor does a great job of keeping up with and following up with his app. 200 children and youth) The pastor stands at back door after service. He knows who is and is not there. They were all small group members. No, the small group leaders don't follow up when members leave. The deacons don't follow up with them either. One couple I am thinking about literally lives across the street from the senior pastor. Three years ago, one of the kids was sick, then another, then another. They missed three weeks and no one asked about them. The husband said on Sunday morning of week 4 "we are not going today either, They don't care about us." It is now almost exactly 3 years later and no one in leadership (including the senior pastor who lives across the street) has asked about them. I visit them quite often because my oldest son is their oldest sons best friend. Its funny that everyone in that neighborhood is constantly dropping in and out of each others houses EXCEPT, the pastor who lives across the street and seems to be the neighborhood hermit.
    What happened to leaving the 99 and going after the one? Do modern pastors no longer have the heart of a shepherd?
    When I was deacon at the Church I grew up in, I worked with 4 different pastors. One had the heart of a shepherd. 3 I had to drag kicking and screaming with me to go visit people who had left the church.
     
  6. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Well I certainly cannot speak for your Senior but as one I withhold a judgment knowing some things I do. However, there should be a plan in place for your deacons to visit members regularly. We have what is called the Deacons Family Plan. All the members are divided up between the deacons evenly and they are responsible to make contact with each of them once a month. The goal is that they always know what is going on with the families on their list.

    The mall groups should also be following up. Both with visitors and with members that are part of their small groups. I will admit that it appears there is a level of spiritual health at your church that is missing and this failure to to see after missing members is a symptom of a bigger problem.

    However, one thing every church member needs to remember. Church members have a right to demand to be looked after but they do not have a right to demand who does it.
     
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  7. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    Church members may or may not have "a right to" anything. As a shepherd, the ultimate responsibility to care for the sheep is his. Whether direct or indirect, the shepherd should see that the flock is being tended.
     
    #7 Reynolds, Sep 16, 2018
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2018
  8. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    He should, however, it is the deacons direct responsibility to see to the physical care if you will. Some people demand that only the pastor see them and get offended if it is not specifically him.

    But again, there is a lack of spiritual health there that the pastor should be addressing. (maybe he is) Further, if a pastor is not visiting his people regularly then how can he know them. If the spiritual health is not addressed soon the church will begin to decline if it is not already doing so.
     
  9. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    I doubt it. He is too busy with side job (associate college professor) and working on his doctorate where he can become a full tenured professor. (My 2 cents anyway)
    The church is growing only because of the youth pastor.
     
  10. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Just my two cents, but if the pastor seems distracted from his duties there at the church then it is the responsibility of the church to address it with him. Should he not want to listen or make a change then the church needs to decide if that is the kind of pastor they feel will maintain the spiritual health of the church. Decline in a church can happen fast or slow. The pastor should never allow this just to advance his career. You all need to get this addressed quickly.

    His first priority should be his family then the church.
     
  11. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    I agree.
     
  12. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    I would be interested in how it goes. I specialize in church revitalization. I am always interested in how these things work out.
     
  13. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    Nothing will happen as long as the youth pastor continues to bring more in the side door than the pastor lets get away out the front door.
     
  14. JonShaff

    JonShaff Fellow Servant
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    Here is my $.02, and it may be worth less than that after you read this :)

    This is the problem when we have expectations of leadership that are not biblical. The Pastor is to feed the flock of God with the Word of God. He is an equip-er for the "Work of the Ministry." He should be teaching others how to care for one another (Submitting to one another in the fear of God.) The members of Christ's body should be compassionate towards one another, including the leadership. The leadership should def be servants and model what that looks like to one another. I believe if fellow brothers and sisters in Christ were taking up their part (Eph 4--every member doing their part) as a minister of God, the people who were out sick and away for a bit would be so overwhelmed with the Love of God that they would not need a specific group of people to affirm them. And if that is happening--members becoming ministers--than the leadership WOULD be doing their Job--and their hearts will be knit together in love.

    This reminds me of a thread that was discussing what is wrong in the church in America. Leadership is expected to do all the activities that the people of God should be doing--creating a divide that is unbiblical.

    In short, it is not solely the leaderships' job to attend to the members, it is everyone's job to see that needs are taken care of.
     
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  15. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    After 45 years in ministry I have discovered 10% of the people do 90% of the work of ministry.
     
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  16. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    I mostly agree with that. If the work is not being done, then it would appear that there is a breakdown in leadership. Either the flock is poorly equipped or poorly motivated. As a pastor, you could live across the road from a family of church member who have not attended in 3 years and not walk over there and talk to them?
     
  17. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    That seems to be the case in most churches. In many instances, It also is used as an excuse.

    What I have also seen time and again is that a church will never rise to a level higher than the pastor.

    Maybe I am just a dinosaur, but I grew up in a church where the pastor and the deacons worked. We did outreach and inreach. We would go ask members to help us, but we never just sat back and assumed that the flock would tend to its self.
     
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  18. JonShaff

    JonShaff Fellow Servant
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    I suppose i could ( and maybe he did?), but the one thing i've learned in my short pastorate, People are going to do what they want to do--and i'm speaking about the people who haven't attended in 3 years. Chasing down people that do not want to be a part is a very stressful and taxing thing. When the pastor is "chasing down" all the "sheep who have gone astray", he neglects his responsibility to those who are desiring fellowship and instruction. I do not believe Matthew 18 is "the pastor's job", but every member of Christ so as not to put the burden on one person. Not to mention, Christ is the Great Shepherd and Overseer of our souls, i'm confident He can bring them back into the fold.
     
  19. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    What do you think about Matthew 18:12?
    I agree about the burden being on one person, but we are not talking about a mega church here. We are talking about at the most 150 adults.

    You really could live across a tiny city street from a family that quit attending and not walk 50 yards over to talk to them? This street dead ends and may have 20cars a day go down it. Kids play in it all the time. Its more like a community driveway. The family stays in the yard all the time grilling, working on atv, working on motorcycles, playing basketball, etc.
    I would say a shepherd would at least go that far to talk to a sheep that had strayed.

    I am a dinosaur, but I grew up with the preacher dropping by the house at least once every couple months. He would talk about school, deer hunting, shoot basketball. Talk my Mama into cooking him a cake. Talk my Daddy into reloading him some rifle cartridges. He made himself a friend of the family. At that time, there was about 200 adults and 75 kids in that church. He had no youth pastor or staff. He had time for everybody. He and his family ate several nights a week with church members. He ate lunch about everyday with the widow women of the church. Our pastor now does not have a clue where 90% of the church members live.
     
    #19 Reynolds, Sep 17, 2018
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2018
  20. JonShaff

    JonShaff Fellow Servant
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    A couple of things here--the passage begins in Luke 15 (parallel passage) that the Pharisees are put out with the fact Jesus Christ is hanging out with sinners and tax collectors AND THEN Christ begins His parables. Christ is the One who seeks the Lost--yes we are laboring with Him now through the Holy Spirit.
    Yes, I would walk across the street and talk to them for sure, it would be a pleasure and privilege to do so. I'm just saying i do not know the circumstances around this particular situation.

    There are some things that can be said about this as a generalization.

    1. Some pastors do this, to the neglect of their own family--this, i believe, is why you see pastor's children go astray--they have poured into so many families except their own.

    2. I'm glad a pastor can visit, but the question is, is there real fellowship between other believers in the congregation? That's the mark of spiritual maturity in the Church, is when Members extend Love to one another by desiring to be present in their lives on a regular basis.

    3. And once again, if the pastor being friendly and extending brotherly love, that is great, but it's everyone's responsibility to do that. The pastor should not monopolize on having all the intimate relationships in the church body.
     
    #20 JonShaff, Sep 17, 2018
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2018
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