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Featured How Free Will Destroys Faith in Christ;

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by 1689Dave, Dec 14, 2019.

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  1. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    Free will means all people have partial salvation. And all they must do is provide what’s needed to complete it. So different groups fill in the blanks with different levels of obedience to complete the task. They are half saved having free will. And fully saved by choosing to obey.

    But it always results in people trusting in themselves for salvation. God only opening heaven’s doors to those who complete the task.

    But this destroys faith in Christ as savior. Free will is a walk by sight trust in yourself for salvation based on rules you fulfill. So trust is always in self who fulfills them.

    But without free will, people have to look for a power beyond themselves to save. Only when they come to the end of themselves with nothing more they can do, will Christ become their only focus of faith.

    As Martin Luther said; "First, God has promised certainly His grace to the humbled: that is, to the self-deploring and despairing. But a man cannot be thoroughly humbled, until he comes to know that his salvation is utterly beyond his own powers, counsel, endeavours, will, and works, and absolutely depending on the will, counsel, pleasure, and work of another, that is, of God only.”

    He continues; “For if, as long as he has any persuasion that he can do even the least thing himself towards his own salvation, he retain a confidence in himself and does not utterly despair in himself, so long he is not humbled before God; but he proposes to himself some place, some time, or some work, whereby he may at length attain unto salvation. But he who hesitates not to depend wholly upon the good-will of God, he totally despairs in himself, chooses nothing for himself, but waits for God to work in him; and such an one, is the nearest unto grace, that he might be saved." Martin Luther. The Bondage of the Will.

    So in the end people have sight faith, trusting in tangible items keen to the senses. But only few have faith sight where they trust in Christ alone to save them.
     
    #1 1689Dave, Dec 14, 2019
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  2. Reformed

    Reformed Well-Known Member
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    Dave,

    How do you think the average rank-and-file Synergist views their soteriological position? I knew nothing about Calvinism when I came to faith in Christ. I heard the Gospel and I believed. I did not know a single theological term. All I knew is that at one moment I did not have Jesus and the next moment I did. So, I press the question. How do you think the average rank-and-file Synergist views their position?
     
    #2 Reformed, Dec 14, 2019
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  3. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    I experienced salvation but became confused after the first church I set foot in. Being presented with several false doctrines preferred today. I wish for others who are saved an confused to become aware of this so they can recover themselves from it.
     
    #3 1689Dave, Dec 14, 2019
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  4. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Never. It is free will that all man are lost without God's will. One must give up free with for God's will.
     
    #4 37818, Dec 14, 2019
  5. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    Jesus said the truth makes us free. So those deceived by free will think they are halfway home.
     
    #5 1689Dave, Dec 14, 2019
  6. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    The extent of false conditions and assumptions about other people's beliefs that you make up in your head is breathtaking.



    Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk
     
    #6 InTheLight, Dec 14, 2019
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  7. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Religious and lost. (Like in Matthew 7:21-23.)
    Jesus was speaking of Himself, ". . . If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed. . . ." -- John 8:36.

    People must choose between one's preceived free will for God's will. ". . . But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them. . . ." -- 2 Corinthians 4:3-4.
     
    #7 37818, Dec 14, 2019
  8. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    How about the trust of the argument? What Luther said?
     
    #8 1689Dave, Dec 14, 2019
  9. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    The op has got to be one of the most idiotic posts ever on thus board. The author doesn't want to engage people with what he believes to be truth but instead use hyperbolic and bombastic characterizations to demean and accuse. Its childish and sophomoric at best. Come out of the cage.
     
    #9 Revmitchell, Dec 14, 2019
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  10. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    Luther too?
     
    #10 1689Dave, Dec 14, 2019
  11. Reformed

    Reformed Well-Known Member
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    This is why I think so many of these threads go off the rails quickly. They are made by Calvinists and non-Calvinists alike. A recently closed 181 post thread was started by a non-Calvinist to troll Calvinists. Threads that ask sincere questions and are not a trap to pull a "gotcha" on the other side are profitable. Unfortunately, too many of these threads are created with other motives.



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    #11 Reformed, Dec 14, 2019
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  12. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    Are you judging my motives?
     
    #12 1689Dave, Dec 14, 2019
  13. Reformed

    Reformed Well-Known Member
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    I do not know your motives. I am concerned that this thread, like so many others like it, are perceived by the other side as a poke in the eye. In my opinion, your thread puts the other side of the argument on the immediate defensive. It does not create a welcome invitation for constructive dialog. This is what MB did in his recently closed thread. The OP was more like tossing down a gauntlet.

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    #13 Reformed, Dec 14, 2019
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  14. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    What about Luther? Was he wrong to take on the Catholics?
     
    #14 1689Dave, Dec 14, 2019
  15. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    I believe it is within reasonable bounds to start a thread when we believe the otherrside may struggle to answer a point in scripture. Its the characterizations of each other that are a problem. Take for example the title of this thread. Even if one truly believes that do they not know how it will be received? Of course they do. Yet they do it anyway. What do they get out of it? What is the pay off for them? I cannot help but believe their intent is something other than a peaceful discussion.
     
    #15 Revmitchell, Dec 14, 2019
  16. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    I'm sorry that you had no one to explain things to you Dave many get confused because they don't know what's next. It's very much like the Parable of the sower maybe in your case the tares grew up around you and choked you. You know the cares of this life. Not to discount that Satan doesn't like it when we find the truth, and believe in Christ. However all is not lost you kept believing in Christ didn't you?. That's a good thing. You see the moment that you believed you were sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise. We can't be saved twice.Don't let anyone tell you that you weren't saved because you asked of your own freewill but be thankful Christ never left you.
    MB
     
    #16 MB, Dec 14, 2019
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  17. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    Doesn't everyone know Arminians will oppose Calvinism visa versa in the thread devoted to that? It's judging motives that gets us into trouble with God.
     
    #17 1689Dave, Dec 14, 2019
  18. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    How do you know you're saved?
     
    #18 1689Dave, Dec 14, 2019
  19. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
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    When you take self out, then you will understand Salvation!... It's 100% Christ and none of me!... He tread the wine press alone... Brother Glen:)
     
    #19 tyndale1946, Dec 14, 2019
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  20. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    When I asked the Lord to save me. My heart was full of sin and hatred. I hated everything about Christians. It seemed to me I was never really welcomed around any of them. I just could not relate to them it seemed they all thought they were better than everyone else even each other. When I asked Christ to save me everything changed. It was like a huge load had been lifted off me. My attitude changed from hatefulness to peacefulness. I actually began to love others instead of being hateful. The Bible became something I love very much where before I hated it because I was made to study it against my own will. In other words I could not get enough of it and still I can't seem to get enough. Before I was saved I didn't really love anything or anybody this was the biggest change to happen to me in my life.My will changed too. I was willing to help people and to appreciate hearing a good sermon I became willing to serve God.
    MB
     
    #20 MB, Dec 14, 2019
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