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Featured Creeds vs. Bible

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by asterisktom, Feb 21, 2020.

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  1. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    many Baptist churches have detailed statement of beliefs, that pretty much serve same function as Confessions do in reformed churches.
     
    #21 Yeshua1, Feb 21, 2020
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  2. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Jesus bodily rose in the SAME body that he was put to death in, just was now glorified! To deny the physical bodily resurrection is heresy!
     
    #22 Yeshua1, Feb 21, 2020
  3. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    actually most of RCC teaching and much of Protestantism is Preterist by default in that they ignore the dogma of the bodily Second Coming. Tom does not (per the resurrection) THOUGH he differs greatly in details afterwards.

    as a child i was taught NOTHING about the return of Christ.

    As a Catholic adult years ago looking for answers - the return of Christ was conveyed in a spiritual sense through His "Mystical Body" the church and the Real Presence. Something similar is also the belief of a great deal of 21st century Protestantism, Christ has returned in a spiritual messianic sense (Neo-orthodoxy) through the church community.

    nothing more, i do however remember the nuns telling us God will someday destroy the earth with fire.
     
    #23 HankD, Feb 21, 2020
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  4. asterisktom

    asterisktom Well-Known Member
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    Thank you, Hank, for stating succinctly my beliefs. Not everyone here does that.
     
    #24 asterisktom, Feb 21, 2020
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  5. asterisktom

    asterisktom Well-Known Member
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    Your disagreement is not just with me but with the church in Acts. They understood the fulfillment of Psalm 2 to have happened in their time. This is reaffirmed elsewhere in the NT. See Acts 2:34, 35; 13:33; Heb. 1:13; 12:2; and I Pet. 3:22.

    Take a look also at a cross reference, Psalm 110, where God says of Christ

    "rule thou in the midst of thine enemies"


    It presupposes that there are enemies. This is not some imagined future time of universal peace, but of conflict and opposition.

    Where is Christ? He is here now. Just because the Kingdom did not come with observation does not mean it is not here right now.
     
    #25 asterisktom, Feb 21, 2020
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  6. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    It is here in part, but when He returns the Second time, His Kingdom shall then be in full!
     
    #26 Yeshua1, Feb 21, 2020
  7. asterisktom

    asterisktom Well-Known Member
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    So Christ is an absentee King? How does that work out?

    Read what the Bible says about His kingdom. It does not come partially. Where is that in Scripture? And His kingdom has no end.

    Either His Kingdom is all here or it is not at all here.

    And we declare unto you glad tidings, how that the promise which was made unto the fathers,


    God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.     Acts 13.32 - 33

    Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. Hebrews 12.2

    Jesus Christ: Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him. 1 Peter 3.22

    I have given three verse to show Christ is reigning now. Show me just one where His kingdom is only in part. Or is not here at all.
     
    #27 asterisktom, Feb 21, 2020
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  8. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    he has not come back yet, we have not yet been glorified, and BOTH must appear to have his Kingdom come on earth as now in heaven!
     
    #28 Yeshua1, Feb 21, 2020
  9. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    Why is it He does not show His face? Was His return to be kept secret ? nope Christ said
    Mat 24:26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
    Mat 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
    Mat 24:28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together..

    Maybe we don't believe in the same Jesus.
    Your view is just speculation not fact The name of Jesus isn't mentioned. Not only this If this is about Jesus why would God make Him a member of the order of Melchizedek. That would be placing Christ under the rule of someone else. No one but the Father was over Christ.
    MB
     
    #29 MB, Feb 21, 2020
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  10. asterisktom

    asterisktom Well-Known Member
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    Maybe you are calling my salvation into question. You should not do that. But that is on you.

    Your verses miss the point. Christ said the Kingdom does not come with observation. Paul says in 2 Cor. 4 that those things that are unseen are eternal.

    Your verses are not about the visibility of the kingdom but the quickness of the effects of His coming. He came to Jerusalem - that is where the carcass was, the dead body of the Old Covenant professors, and carried out judgment. His instrument in this case, his rod of iron, was the Roman legions. Their presence was symbolized by their standards, the eagles. The eagles came where the corpse was. The effects of this had a profound and deadly effect on Jews throughout the Empire. This can all be verified by reading Josephus.
     
    #30 asterisktom, Feb 21, 2020
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  11. asterisktom

    asterisktom Well-Known Member
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    I may have said this to you maybe a dozen times but for the sake of others reading this I will say it again -- I certainly affirm the physical resurrection of Christ. I always have. How many times must I tell you this?
     
    #31 asterisktom, Feb 21, 2020
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  12. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    our disagreement centers on the word "bodily" and the timing thereof.

    Indeed time must come to an end - entropy is synchronized and built into the material universe - sin and death cannot go on forever. this mortal clock ticks down. what then?
     
    #32 HankD, Feb 21, 2020
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  13. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Jesus return will be dramatic and physical appearance, as the entire earth shall notice His appearing, not the spiritual one that the JW and pretierists hold with as being!
     
    #33 Yeshua1, Feb 21, 2020
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  14. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Will we also be physical gloried and raised up at His second coming event?
     
    #34 Yeshua1, Feb 21, 2020
  15. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    Tom believes in a physical resurrection of the Lord which sets him apart from JW's.
     
    #35 HankD, Feb 21, 2020
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  16. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    he though sees the second coming has already happened, and that we will have a spiritual but not a physical resurrection! That is very JW!
     
    #36 Yeshua1, Feb 21, 2020
  17. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    Again in terms of 21st century non-JW Christendom we the fundamentalists are in the minority.
    most nominal Christians have no idea or only do lip service to the literal resurrection of a literal glorified body.

    A few years ago right here at the BB those of us who insisted upon a literal resurrection in a literal body were likened to "zombie" Christians.
     
    #37 HankD, Feb 21, 2020
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  18. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    The historical position of the Church has been to see it otherwise was heresy!
     
    #38 Yeshua1, Feb 21, 2020
  19. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    times have changed.
     
    #39 HankD, Feb 21, 2020
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  20. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Scripture doctrines do not!
     
    #40 Yeshua1, Feb 21, 2020
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