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Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by AustinC, Oct 19, 2020.

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  1. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    Is that 'all ' without distinction? Or is it for all kinds of men , kindred , nations, and tongues ?
     
  2. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    The RV was to be the revision for the KJV and the RSV the revision for the ASV. The ASV was the American revision for the RV.
     
  3. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    But it says the ones who learned of the father . Thats clear. The pharisees had departed from the scriptures, no longer heard the voice of the shepard , this is christianity not hindu enlightenment?
     
  4. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    God does so with His living word, Hebrews 4:12. Everyone has faith from God, Rpmans 10:17-18, see Psalms 19.
     
  5. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    In Ezekiel its referring to Israel . We don't get a new heart of flesh replacing our hearts of stone causing us to walk in Jewish statutes and ordinances.
     
  6. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    There is nothing in your translation about faith. Interpret faith into that verse for me please.

    If I read the whole verse I see that the world knew not God until someone preached to them, whereby God saves those who believe and it pleases God to do so.

    Now, where is faith inserted? Is it before belief or after belief?
     
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  7. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    Faith / believe / trust = same .
     
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  8. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    All whom God predestined. ;)
     
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  9. SGO

    SGO Well-Known Member

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    When you ask?

    So then faith cometh by hearing,
    and hearing by the word of God.
    Romans 10:17

    When the "ears" get spiritually dewaxed (by the Holy Spirit),
    and a person is old enough to understand language.
     
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  10. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    We already established that some are “blinded” to the Gospel and most view the Word of God as “foolishness”. So that brings us back to the question of why God “does so” with His word in some and God “does not do so” with his word in others.

    Whatever the answer, God must “DO” whatever God does before the hearer can understand and believe.
     
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  11. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    Which would be all those that believed . Eph 1.5 After we believed. Notice in rom 8.23 when the Adoption is. No sinner is predestined. Read Eph 2 .11-12
     
  12. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    Heb 11
    1¶Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
    2For by it the elders obtained a good report.
    3¶Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
    4¶By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.
    5¶By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.
    6But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
    How on earth can it be reasonable to conclude God gave these men Faith and was then pleased with them for doing things by faith ? Why would God be pleased when its not them thats having Faith in God? It makes reading Hebrews 11 a farce . When someone is caught using Performance enhancing drugs in sport no one is pleased when the beat everyone. Its called cheating, because it wasn't their own strength that enabled them to do what they did .
     
  13. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    The fault is never with the bible, but with us, but since God states that his word always accomplishes its intended work and will not return void, that he must seek to save some and n ot all!
     
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  14. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    The bible reveals that Satan has blinded the minds of people..Why is he doing this if they are born blind as you might say ?
     
  15. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    Jesus came for Israel. But he died for the whole world . 2cor 5 .19
     
  16. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    Thinking the Gospel is foolishness is not permanent. Many hear the Gospel several times Before believing. Sometimes over many years . Strange if irresistible grace be true ?
     
  17. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    I think you lost track of the point you were making. You were discussing who reads the ESV Bible and I joked “all who are predestined.” Are you now REALLY intending to argue that “all those that believe” read the ESV and no sinner does?

    @AustinC would probably give you a shout of “AMEN!” :D
     
  18. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    Read 2 Corinthians 4 for yourself. Paul answers that particular question.

    If the power to save is ALL in the words (and only in the words), they why do the same words save some and are rejected as foolishness by others?
    Is God’s arm short?
    Is man’s will stronger than the Gospel?

    I say that God does “something” to enable men some men to understand the Gospel, otherwise no one would be saved.
    I presented scripture supporting WHY I BELIEVE AS I DO.

    You are free to believe whatever seems right to you.
     
  19. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    Verse?
     
  20. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    The same greek word in the Bible is all of these?
     
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