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The eternal subordination of the Word.

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by 37818, Oct 30, 2020.

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  1. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Again, are you denying that the Word was really "with the God?" John 1:2.
     
    #41 37818, Oct 31, 2020
  2. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    really? and where did you read this?
     
    #42 SavedByGrace, Oct 31, 2020
  3. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    you cannot read! I quoted from #33, "eternal subordination", which means "from eternity past". what you have quoted is from Jesus Incarnation! temporary subordination.
     
    #43 SavedByGrace, Oct 31, 2020
  4. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    I do not. I believe I made it clear I understand the Word to be an uncused Person with God as well as being God.

    Also the Word as God is the sole cause of all caused things, John 1:3, therefore is uncaused.
     
    #44 37818, Oct 31, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2020
  5. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    You deny that the Word being with the God is to be subordinate, have you not?
     
    #45 37818, Oct 31, 2020
  6. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Two things here. You are correct about the preincarnate Christ being YHWH. John 8:24.
    But as for Hebrews 13:8, it is my understanding this refers to the post incarnation, post resurrected Christ.
     
    #46 37818, Oct 31, 2020
  7. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    My origianal post #1 was expliciit. Pick one statement from that post you think is fales and give a simple proof.
     
    #47 37818, Oct 31, 2020
  8. JamesL

    JamesL Well-Known Member
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    But in your earlier post you seemed to equate uncaused with uncreated, seeming to suggest that if the word of God had a car that would necessarily mean the word of God was created
     
    #48 JamesL, Oct 31, 2020
  9. JamesL

    JamesL Well-Known Member
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    I can read just fine. Are you suggesting that the word of God ceased to be eternal at the Incarnation? Seems you are introducing static into what scripture calls a hypostatic union
     
    #49 JamesL, Oct 31, 2020
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  10. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    where did you read this?
     
    #50 SavedByGrace, Oct 31, 2020
  11. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    then your understaning is faulty!
     
    #51 SavedByGrace, Oct 31, 2020
  12. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    1000%
     
    #52 SavedByGrace, Oct 31, 2020
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  13. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    You are thinking the Word is uncreated but caused. My thinking being what is created is caused. So it is my understanding that the Word is the uncused Cause, John 1:3 on the behalf of God being God, John 1:1. So I understand the Word to have no beginning therefore being uncaused.
     
    #53 37818, Oct 31, 2020
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  14. JamesL

    JamesL Well-Known Member
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    I didn't read it.

    I asked are you suggesting it
    Maybe you can't read
     
    #54 JamesL, Oct 31, 2020
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  15. JamesL

    JamesL Well-Known Member
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    I'm just wondering why you think caused = created

    I'm thinking of God speaking. He caused His voice to go out, but He didn't create His voice
     
    #55 JamesL, Oct 31, 2020
  16. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    I “tend” toward this belief. The self-identification of God as Father, Son, Holy Spirit suggests eternal subordination.

    John 1:18, says “No man hath seen God at anytime...”

    How can this statement be consistent with Adam walking in garden with God? With all the appearances of God as a “man” in OT?

    It seems reasonable to me that John is saying no man has ever seen one specific person within the Godhead, God the Father. No man could see Him and live.

    All the appearances of God in the OT is of the second person of the Godhead. That is the role of the Eternal Son.

    When I was in seminary, we called it the “economy” of the Godhead. Each person within the Godhead had a specific role to accomplish the will of God.

    Again, functional eternal subordination doesn’t mean greater or lesser persons within the Godhead.

    peace to you
     
    #56 canadyjd, Oct 31, 2020
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  17. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Why? Saying my understanding is faulty does not make that so. Fact: Hebrews 13:8 was written post incarnation and post resurrection. What proof do you have that "yesterday" must mean past "eternity?" It was the Word who changed to become the man Jesus Christ from eternity. Do you really believe Jesus Christ as the Word was eternally a man prior to His incarnation?
     
    #57 37818, Oct 31, 2020
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  18. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    We may disagree. I am of the understanding that the Word is the sole cause of all caused things on behalf of God as God per John 1:3 so the Word Himself is uncaused.
     
    #58 37818, Oct 31, 2020
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  19. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    excludes equality. this should be the starting point.
     
    #59 SavedByGrace, Oct 31, 2020
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  20. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    well, if you can read and understand what I have written, you would not ask if I am suggesting this! :rolleyes:
     
    #60 SavedByGrace, Oct 31, 2020
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