Featured Does God Ordain Everything That Takes Place?

We are not the ones the make these comments:

Iconoclast if something is not ordained to happen...it does not happen. Post # 58
Sin is ordained to take place.... post #59

It is your theology that makes God the author of sin. Not the bible nor those that do not hold to your views.

 

I believe what you are describing is Apostasy. Rock bands, entertainment, gospel puppets and clowns is not maturing, but apostasy and not Christianity at all.

 

I was referring to Austin & Iconoclast as those that deny the Sovereignty of God. They want to put Him in a box.

 

I agree that God did not make Adam sin, he had a free will. Where the problem comes in is that under Calvinist determinism and God ordaining/decreeing all things {WCF/LBCF} then that means Adam could only do what God had determined for him to do, as with all sin that we see.

God is sovereign and if in His sovereignty He wants to give man the free will to sin or to choose to trust in Christ Jesus for his salvation then who are you oh man to disagree with Him

 

Mark Driscoll isn't reformed.

 

wrong;

PARAGRAPH 1
God hath decreed in himself, from all eternity, by the most wise and holy counsel of His own will, freely and unchangeably, all things, whatsoever comes to pass;

1 yet so as thereby is God neither the author of sin

nor hath fellowship with any therein;


2 nor is violence offered to the will of the creature,

nor yet is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away,

but rather established;


3 in which appears His wisdom in disposing all things, and power and faithfulness in accomplishing His decree.






1 Isa. 46:10; Eph. 1:11; Heb. 6:17; Rom. 9:15,18
2 James 1:13; 1 John 1:5
3 Acts 4:27–28; John 19:11
4 Num. 23:19; Eph. 1:3–5

 

That is a valid point. If you read Edwards or any discussion of this that goes beyond calling each other names you find this argument. I tend to think that God created Adam with the primary wish that Adam not sin. But the problem for my argument is that God is all knowing and all powerful and Adam did sin, yet God could have prevented it. One Calvinist argument is that God has two wills. He honestly did not want Adam to sin. But he also wanted to give Adam a truly free will. Being God, he knew Adam would sin (he knows everything) and thus the plan of the Fall, sending Christ, redeeming a multitude of people was already in place. This was God's sovereign will. Now, I think this is a fairly weak argument. But, and this is very important - for all of us on here who believe God is all knowing and all powerful we are left with the fact that Adam did sin. God either knew of it beforehand and allowed it anyway, or it took him by surprise and he reacted with the plan of redemption. I would make 2 points:

No non-Calvinist has been able to come up with a better explanation for God knowing something and allowing it to happen and letting it happen and not being somehow thought to "ordain" it.

Also, some Calvinists do go too far I think in describing events as being directly attributable to God. For instance, we live in a fallen world, of our own making. We die and have accidents. But if a plane crashes I don't think it's correct to automatically say "God crashed the plane". Some do, and I don't agree with them.

 

"Silverhair,

Did sin surprise God?
Could God not prevent the evil men?

The cross was ordained to take place.
23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:

It was ordained that Judas would betray Jesus. Judas was not just relaxing , and God forced him to betray Jesus.
He did what he wanted to do, for 30 pieces of silver.

 

No..it does not mean to cause.

nor yet is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away,

 

"DaveXR650,

It is not a valid point.

Does an omniscient God need to wish or hope, like the old Dusty Springfield song wishin and hopin?
Dusty Springfield - Wishin & Hopin 1964
Or does God execute His purpose exactly as He pleases?

You are drifting away from biblical revelation.
God could not have prevented it. His plan was perfect, or He would have had a different plan.
God never goes to plan B.

WHERE DOES IT SAY THAT? It does not say free will exists. It does not say God wanted, it said God created....not wanted and did not.

[QUOTE]Being God, he knew Adam would sin (he knows everything) and thus the plan of the Fall, sending Christ, redeeming a multitude of people was already in place. This was God's sovereign will.But, and this is very important - for all of us on here who believe God is all knowing and all powerful we are left with the fact that Adam did sin. [/QUOTE]

All have to face this.

[QUOTE]God either knew of it beforehand and allowed it anyway, or it took him by surprise and he reacted with the plan of redemption. [/QUOTE]
No Calvinist or biblical Christian would even suggest God was "taken by Surprise"???This is carnal reasoning and totally unscriptural.

 

Since you agree that God is omniscient and omnipresent you must believe that God knew that a sin would take place, that He had the power to prevent that sin from happening but decided not to prevent it, thus determined that sin would take place.

 

you completely misuderstood what Iconoclast was saying. Rock band =/= small worship band.