Featured "Believing is the consequence of the new birth"

Can't answer my post. Got it

 

Sigh, weather or not I was corrected in how you identify is irrelevant to the very specific point I made. You have avoided responding to the specific point. Why is that? Here it is again:


"This reasoning is a fallacy. No one puts their trust and hope in themselves." When we give a gift to a person do we also say that the person who received the gift took part in giving the gift to themselves? We do not. The total credit goes to the person who decided to give the gift, bought the gift, and made the gift available. Credit never goes to the person who receives the gift simply because they reached out and received the gift. You are trying to apply an inconsistent logic to salvation where it dies not get applied to anything else.

the Bible says salvation is a gift (Romans 6:23) It also gives instructions on how to receive this gift (Romans 10:9-17) The receiving of the gift doesn't then give credit to the receiver of the gift. It became a gift the moment the giver offered it. What happens after that doesn't change that fact."

I quoted your specific words and why I see your reasoning as a fallacy. You thus far have been unable to respond.

 

I did not say you did. This is the second time you have falsely accused me of this. Now reread the post and respond to my very specific claim.

 

The merry go round has been created solely by you. All that is needed is for you to read my post with a very specific issue raised and respond to that. This is the last time I will attempt this in an effort to get off your "merrygoround"

 

Well I agree, you are unwilling to move this conversation in a more productive way. Be sure of this. This topic will be brought up to you again in the future.

 

Ken I am not questioning whether you think you are saved or not, that is not the intent of my comment.
"Calvinist say that God saves them before they have any faith and then He gives them faith. Also as one who says God has determined all things, He may heave determined that you think you are saved but in reality your not. That is the reality of your theology. You have to hope that God is not playing a trick on you just as J Calvin said."

What I am questioning is Calvinism. The idea that God saves one before they even have faith and that they are then given faith by Him is something that has to be read into the bible.

 

Ken, as I said it is Calvinism that is the problem. In what I have read and heard from many Calvinists that theology does not comport with scripture.

Loraine Boettner
"A man is not saved because he believes in Christ, he believes in Christ because he is saved." So Boettner has a person saved before they believe which is contrary to what the bible says.

Do you believe these scriptures are true? I do.

Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek.
Rom 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Actually He did not choose the elect before the foundation of the world. You leave out two critical words “in Him” Jesus Christ is the elect one if one is not in Him they are not elect, and the only way to be in Him is through faith in Him. And when you are in Him then you are saved.

I agree God does not just excuse sins they have to be and were dealt with at the cross.

1Jn_2:2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.

So, if I am reading your post correctly, and I am sure I am, you have just said that everyone has their sins paid for at the cross. Since you have Christ Jesus deal with sin at the cross we are presented with two options
1] All men are part of the elect and all men will be saved
2] the sins of all people were dealt with at the cross and thus all men can be saved through faith in Christ Jesus.
Which option do you choose? One is biblical the other is not.

 

Ken, your reading "elect" into world in 1Jn 2:2 is not tenable. That view comes from your Calvinist theology not from the bible.

You have just proven that the Calvinist has to change the meaning of words or disregard context to make their errant view fit the bible. Do a word study of "world" in John's writings. What amazes me the most is that you {Calvinists} seem to think that the Holy Spirit does not know the difference between the words "world" G2889 and "elect" G1588.

 

"Christ is the elect one if one is not in Him they are not elect" When you say this goes against God's word are you saying there is another way to become one of the elect? The bible is clear that being in Christ is the only way and that is through faith.