What constitutes "marriage"?

Since Gina cannot give BlackBird Marcia and I, her definition of what FORNICATION means.
I thought I would provide what the bible and dictonaries and Greek meanings have to say.


"I am jealous for you with a godly jealousy. I promised you to one husband, to Christ, so that I might present you as a pure virgin to him." (2 Corinthians 11:2)

"Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God." (1 Corinthians 6:9-10)

"We should not commit sexual immorality, as some of them did--and in one day twenty-three thousand of them died." (1 Corinthians 10:8)
"Marriage should be honored by all, and the marriage bed kept pure, for God will judge the adulterer and all the sexually immoral." (Hebrews 13:4)

"But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars-- their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death." (Revelation 21:8)

"Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a man commits are outside his body, but he who sins sexually sins against his own body. Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your body." (1 Corinthians 6:18-20)

"But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God's holy people." (Ephesians 5:3)

"Now to the unmarried and the widows I say: It is good for them to stay unmarried, as I am. But if they cannot control themselves, they should marry, for it is better to marry than to burn with passion ." (1 Corinthians 7:8-9)

In the above passage, notice that Paul had a very specific reason why people should get married: "to avoid fornication." Here is what the English word "fornication" means:

"to have sex with someone who you are not married to" (Freesearch Dictionary)
"Fornication: Sexual intercourse that is "illicit", outside of marriage." (Medical Dictionary)
"fornication n. sexual intercourse between a man and woman who are not married to each other." (Law Dictionary)
"consensual sexual intercourse between two persons not married to each other" (Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary)
"NOUN: Sexual intercourse between partners who are not married to each other.

WORD HISTORY: The word fornication had a lowly beginning suitable to what has long been the low moral status of the act to which it refers. The Latin word fornix, from which fornicti, the ancestor of fornication, is derived, meant "a vault, an arch." The term also referred to a vaulted cellar or similar place where prostitutes plied their trade. This sense of fornix in Late Latin yielded the verb fornicr, "to commit fornication," from which is derived fornicti, "whoredom, fornication." Our word is first recorded in Middle English about 1303." (The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language: Fourth Edition. 2000.)

"c.1300, from O.Fr. fornication, from L.L. fornicationem (nom. fornicatio), from fornicari "fornicate," from L. fornix (gen. fornicis) "brothel," originally "arch, vaulted chamber" (Roman prostitutes commonly solicited from under the arches of certain buildings), from fornus "oven of arched or domed shape." Strictly, "voluntary sex between an unmarried man and an unmarried woman;" extended in the Bible to adultery." (Online Etymology Dictionary)

"Fornication - Hebrew: zanah / Greek: porneia
Fornication is voluntary sexual intercourse between a man and woman who are not married to each other. Adultery is one type of fornication.

In every form, fornication was sternly condemned by the Mosaic law among God's people, the Israelites (Lev. 21:9; 19:29; Deut. 22:20-11, 23-29; 23:18; Ex. 22:16). (See ADULTERY.)

Fornication is also mentioned many times in the New Testament (Matt. 5:32; 19:9; John 8:41; Acts 15:20, 29; 21:25; Rom. 1:29; 1 Cor 5:1, 6:13, 18, 7:2; 10:8; 2 Cor 12:21; Gal 5:19; Eph 5:3; Col 3:5; 1 Thess. 4:3; Jude 1:7; Rev. 2:14, 20-21; 9:21; 14:8; 17:2,4).

"The Greek word for 'fornication' (porneia) could include any sexual sin committed after the betrothal contract. ...In Biblical usage, 'fornication' can mean any sexual congress outside monogamous marriage. It thus includes not only premarital sex, but also adultery, homosexual acts, incest, remarriage after un-Biblical divorce, and sexual acts with animals, all of which are explicitly forbidden in the law as given through Moses (Leviticus 20:10-21). Christ expanded the prohibition against adultery to include even sexual lusting (Matthew 5:28)." (Dr. Henry M. Morris)
The word "fornication" is sometimes used in a symbolic sense in the Bible, for example, meaning a forsaking of God or a following after idols (Isa. 1:2; Jer. 2:20; Ezek. 16; Hos. 1:2; 2:1-5; Jer. 3:8-9)." (christiananswers.net, emphasis added)

So depending on the context, the Greek word porneia can mean adultery, incest, prostitution, idolatry, etc., but the important point here is that porneia also means fornication (premarital sex) as in this example:

http://www.layhands.com/IsPremaritalSexASin.htm

 

Thank you Frenchy, you're a doll. Say, have you joined us in the fellowship forums yet? If not, come take a peek!

 

It does no good for people to complain to you about such things. You have no authority nor ability to do anything about the problem. Therefore, if someone complains to you direct them to click the "Report Post" icon and allow the Forum Moderators to do their jobs.

Read back through the thread and see your posts that I edited. Each time I edited a post I left a note stating why I took action. In each case you violated BB Posting Rule 3 (failure to show grace to your fellow poster), and/or BB Posting Rule 4 (you made a personal attack against someone).

I edited out the troll comment so your point is mute. Likewise, if someone makes a personal attack against you it does not mean that you are free to respond in like manner. You are still required to abide by the BB Posting Rules. Therefore, all you need to do is click on the "Report Post" icon and then give us time to determine what needs to be done (we are not always on-line and reading every post in every thread).

As I said before consider our discussion here as your official warning regarding violations of the BB Posting Rules.

Yours in Christ,

Bible-Boy,
Forum Moderator

[ April 12, 2006, 09:10 AM: Message edited by: Bible-boy ]

 

Nonsense! Either you have not read or understood all the posts on this thread. Joseph and Mary were husband and wife (i.e. married) at least arguably nine (9) months before they had sexual relations (see Matt. 1:18,24-25). Also, can a paralyzed man, who is unable to perform sexually, be married?

If sex is marriage, then you are trapped in many logical contradictions. For example, Bathsheba was still Uriah’s wife even after adultery with David. She did not become David’s wife until after the death of Uriah, her husband, and David took her for his wife. Otherwise, adultery by the wife becomes polyandry. Interestingly, you never find it portrayed as such in Scripture.

Marriage is based on a covenantal relationship, not sex. This is the folly of insisting that a boy and girl, who have fallen into immorality, get married to legitimatize the relationship. In no way does it legitimatize the relationship and erase the sin already committed. Such is specious reasoning and folly. The result is usually a horrible marriage and many times further sin by divorce and remarriage. The Biblical way of dealing with sin is confession repentance and forgiveness by God.

Probably the greatest argument is this: If marriage is sex, then how does that portray our marriage to Christ? The conclusion is unthinkable theologically. A careful reading of Ephesians 5:22-33 will show more about a covenantal relationship than a physical, sexual relation.

 

During WWII, the British had a saying, "The problem with Americans is that they are oversexed and they're over here." Well, their observation about being oversexed hits painfully close to home. With our Hollywood generated culture, we seem to think sex is the ultimate experience and goal of life. With such confused ideals, it is hard for us to realize there is something more to marriage that is better and beyond sex.

One of the problems with our marriages today is that we believe sex is the ultimate. We have folks getting divorced on sexual incompatibility. If the sex isn't awesome, then our marriages are failures according to current thinking. Remember that animals breed (i.e. have sex) without marriage. Sex’s role in marriage is vastly overstated and such thinking contributes to bad marriages and broken marriages. What happens to the marriage when the spouse ages and becomes less sexually attractive? What happens to the marriage when sickness or physical problems remove the element of sex from the relationship? And we have not even addressed the problems caused by the fears and stresses created by the need to produce a powerful sexual performance.

Marriage is not just to make sex legal. It is about a unique and special covenantal relationship between a man and woman that is beyond sex. When we get away from this Biblical view, our marriages are in trouble. Just open your eyes and look around you.

 

That may be convention, but until you can cite statutes on the matter, I will not buy into the assertion that law requires it.

 

Nobody here has asserted that all acts of physical intimacy immediately constitute a marriage. I admire the passion behind the statements, but I've got to wonder who you're talking to, and why.

 

I was wondering the same thing, Gina.

I also suppose that the Genesis story of Adam & Eve is viewed as sinful by some on here, since there was no civil authority, no license, no certificate, and no minister.

 

Outstanding.

 

I will aver that no physical act of intimacy constitutes an act of marriage. Sex is not marriage although it is an intended by God to be limited within marriage. Sex is sex but that is all it is. It is not marriage and you have offered no Biblical proof that it is. Sex is limited to the bounds of marriage but any sex outside the covenant, including autoerotic sex (I'm not referring to sex in a car), is sin. BTW, there is much more to marriage than sex if you haven’t noticed.

I think folks are confusing the term “one flesh” which really does not refer to sex at all but speaks of man and wife becoming one. This “one flesh” relationship is not produced by the act of sex such as sex with a prostitute. The “one flesh” concept is not a physical thing at all unless one would argue that it is the union of two individuals producing an offspring. Even in this instance, it would only pertain to whenever a child was produced. Therefore, one is forced into the contradictory position of saying that marriage only happens when a child is produced. Furthermore, even II Corinthians 6:14 is not referring to a physical union but a yoking of two individuals in fellowship and communion. To understand the “one flesh” imagery, you must read and interpret Genesis 2:23-24 in conjunction—don’t make or force it to be what it sounds like to you in 21st century America. You must understand one flesh in context of creation. If “one flesh” means sex, you have a man leaving his father and mother to have sex with his wife—an absurd interpretation.

 

Your quotes above are your opinion/interpretation. Care to back any of these up with supporting Biblical references?

 

I believe there is a name for this kind of argument--straw man. When the goal is to win the argument even at the expense of truth, one attributes to his opponent some absurd view and wins by default. I challenge and deny your argument because I have seen no one on this thread say anything close or anything that could be interpreted as being close to your statement. It is a foolish statement without rationality or substance. Please quote the post that said this or else quietly slink away.

 

Your quotes above are your opinion/interpretation. Care to back any of these up with supporting Biblical references? </font>[/QUOTE]Yeah, I gave two references, which you chose to edit out, in my original post. You have offered nothing in your post but an inanity of inanities. Of course, it is my opinion and interpretation, which goes without saying. Anything posted on this board is opinion and interpretation including your own posts. Why don't you try giving a rational refutation?

 

Your quotes above are your opinion/interpretation. Care to back any of these up with supporting Biblical references? </font>[/QUOTE]Yeah, I gave two references, which you chose to edit out, in my original post. You have offered nothing in your post but an inanity of inanities. Of course, it is my opinion and interpretation, which goes without saying. Anything posted on this board is opinion and interpretation including your own posts. Why don't you try giving a rational refutation? </font>[/QUOTE]Did I say I am refuting you? I am challenging you to provide evidence of your assertions. It is not up to me...the burden of proof is on one making an assertion.

 

paid,

good posts...

 

Your quotes above are your opinion/interpretation. Care to back any of these up with supporting Biblical references? </font>[/QUOTE]As I challenged you before, why don’t you refute me? I’ll even give you a hint and ammunition to get you started. Your best argument is by an exegesis of I Corinthians 6:15-16. You’re right—I’m taunting you. Can you handle the flow of the argument and exegesis in 1 Corinthians 6:15-16? Remember that you originally challenged me to use Scripture, so I want to see how you can handle exegesis.

 

Paidagogos, again, under the rules of logic, I am under no obligation to refute you. You must support your assertions. I have not even said if I agree or disagree with you. So, if you want to build a case for supporting these assertions, have at it. Otherwise, they are mere speculation on your part.

 

Then why should I take you seriously and answer your questions?

 

I would turn that around and say why should we take your assertions seriously when you cannot or will not provide supporting evidence. Again, they are mere opinion at that point, and unsupported opinion at that.